Does culture matter anymore?

[AppUSMC]

NIL killed App State football. I really hope I’m wrong, but we simply don’t have the money to keep up.

Everyone wants to blame NIL, but the transfer portal is what the real difference is now. Besides whom NIL and the transfer portal has hurt the most has been the top programs, because they cannot hoard talent like they once did.

Besides, UNC-Ch has the best of everything and they cannot buy a win.

Appalachian will be just fine. Everyone has caught up to us not the other way around where we have fallen to their level. Appalachian makes everyone around them better, because they believe if they can do it, we can do it too.

You’re correct. My statement should’ve included the portal and NIL. We’ll never have consistency. As soon as a player stands out he’ll move to greener pastures. Constantly plugging holes in a leaky hull.

[Seattleapp]

I most certainly care if an ACC team beats us by 40. That conference is horrible. There are only a few teams that I'd be okay with beating us by 40 in the whole country.
[/quote]

What about a mountain west team?

[311neers]

I most certainly care if an ACC team beats us by 40. That conference is horrible. There are only a few teams that I'd be okay with beating us by 40 in the whole country.

What about a mountain west team?
[/quote]

Boise could win the ACC.

[BambooRdApp]

I get wanting playing time but has the idea of working hard for a spot died?

Yes. The unlimited portal usage has killed that idea dead.

I think this thought is so overblown. In the vast majority of cases, players aren’t transferring because they are afraid to compete. Take Dubinon and Cummings for example. Both in their last season but both 3rd or 4th on the depth chart at their old school. They aren’t afraid of working hard for their spot, they just want a fair shake. Same thing with Joey at UCLA. He would have competed like crazy but he wasn’t going to be given a fair shot.

I think most of the time, it applies to the “diva” positions - QB and WRs. They draw the most attention obviously.

For me, it not a judgement as to whether the kids are working hard or playing hard....it is the idea of fan allegiance and being attentive. Allowing kids to transfer year in and year out, gets old...and, yes, from a fan perspective.
I would like to see a balance. Maybe you get one transfer without penalty...after that, you have to sit a year.
I get there are some counter points on why a player should be able to transfer whenever possible..as I could change jobs... however, I am penalized on invested stock compensation and/or long-term bonus program if I leave my employer.
To keep fans engaged long term, need players staying for longer period of time IMHO

[Cro-Magnon App]

So how do you do it? Interview a hundred kids a year from the portal to see if they fit the desired culture? And evaluate their talent to see if they are what you need? Then pick 20 or so and hope it’s a fit? Then negotiate payment? Mix them in with a bunch of high school recruits that you hope will stay around long enough to matter? And long enough to develop their skills? And figure out how much you gonna pay them, too? In the meantime, the ones you have from previous years are wanting their money, too, so you got to figure how to keep them happy? ….. In the meantime, maybe your spare time 🥴, you’ve got to run a football program. These coaches deserve every dollar they can get to do a very difficult job in today’s world of college athletics with the scrutiny they are under.

[Bigdaddyg1]

My point about working for a spot or playing time wasn’t meant as a slight on every player. There are a great majority of players way down depth charts who I’m sure are very grateful for the scholarship and the opportunity to get a degree. Many of them I’m sure never really expect to rise to star level. I’m really referring to that mostly second string bunch who often either lack the drive or attitude to move up. If that first school doesn’t cater to them they are gone. I’ve asked before how many players on our current roster have been at App for 3+ years? How many of them rose up the ladder?

[CVAPP]

We used to have a cultural identity. In the aftermath of NIL it seems to have been sucked down the drain.

We fired the most loyal person our program has ever known and replaced him with a guy who has never seen, let alone played in a game versus one of our rivals.

I sincerely wish DL success. I am certain he wants it so he can move up the chain. RIP SC!

What exactly are you basing this claim on and what exactly do you want out of a coach?

I liked Shawn as a coach, a lot. I wanted nothing more than to find another in-house guy who’d stick around for 20 years, stack titles and go out on top, but that’s not realistic. Google the list of elite head coaches who were eventually fired at their institutions. The list is long and distinguished. Shawn wasn’t an elite HC.

So, would you rather have a loyal guy that goes 7-5 or roll the dice every couple of years? JMU keeps finding really good ones. They’ve hit on a few in a row just like we did but theirs were all outside hires. Ours were mostly internal except for Eli and now Dowell.

Again I’d hoped we’d hit on another one with Shawn and it looked that way in year 1 but he couldn’t sustain it. I’m torn up about him passing away but it doesn’t color the lenses and change how his teams performed during his tenure.

I am not sure what my point was. Perhaps I am too old to endure the changes in the landscape of collegiate athletics, but they are not changes. There are the haves, and the have nots.

I fear we are stuck on the road to mediocrity. Although most of our peer institutions beat us there, I would rather see our program, despite NIL, maintain a meaningful cultural identity. I want to see Mountaineers on the field again! Win, lose or draw.

[BambooRdApp]

To original question

Yes

[canes_mj]

Every school in the country is dealing with the same exact issues as us as far as the portal and NIL. Of course we can't compete money wise with the P4...never could. Our peers are G5; and we can succeed and win vs our peers in the portal/NIL era. Other than Boise who has been the gold standard of G5, how many other G5 have better brands and culture than us? Maybe a handful of schools but we're still up there. Losing is the problem...not portal/NIL. I'm not buying that the new era is the cause of the current state of the program, because EVERY G5 is in the same situation.

[spacemonkey]

I think AppState should go socialist on our football team and pay all players the same amount of money. Not blame players....only blame coaches. Give them 60 players and split the nil pool by 60. Maybe not pay Freshmen...tell them after a year of strength training they qualify. Cut players that dont deserve to be paid. All losses are on the coach. The new model the coach better be able to draw up a game plan.

[bcoach]

Perhaps our staff needs to rethink where we find quarterbacks. There is probably a really good reason why some 3rd stringer at Texas or Alabama is available and hitting the portal. It’s also probably not the greatest idea to be enamored with dudes who are leaving power schools. I get wanting playing time but has the idea of working hard for a spot died? Nearly every incoming player to a D1 school was either a major star or starter on his high school team. There has always been a level of expectation by these players that they will immediately play at the next level. As has been said we made a living off of the low 3 star overlooked guy. I can’t imagine what the portal evaluation process involves but how much can a staff glean from a 20 year old who stood on the sidelines for two seasons? Are they using 3 year old high school film?

I agree that part of our culture involved getting that chip on the shoulder authentic young guy. We got those dudes who wanted to prove they were overlooked. That might be harder to find now but I can’t help but think it’s possible. We brought in a big back from mighty Tennessee and unless he’s hurt he has one carry for 3 yards.

I agree. I would be looking for that FCS guy who has been playing every game and wants to move up.

[agentpaul001]

We should/should've concentrated on what makes App different as opposed to getting into the trenches on the NIL / wannabe SEC coach train. Anyone wowed by DL's history prior to here? Let's be real about those teams and their records in aggregate...

App won't ever compete on a dollar to dollar basis so I think it was asinine to pursue a similar route from a coaching and NIL perspective. Instead take a fraction of that NIL money, invest it into App's great communications department & student/alumni run social teams. App has a social media presence far outweighing the size of our university and while I'm not on tiktok the players are (and future fans). Reach them where they are. If you can't pay the players in actual cash, pay them in media (to an extent). The university already produces great content for the team. Do more of it on a personalized basis for the players and prospective recruits. Build their social networks & have them tied to the university to the greatest extent possible. Support the alumni running some of the fan socials (hosting, access, limited support, and so on).

As far as DL, I genuinely hope it gets better, but if not I hope whoevever we get has a history of actually winning football games... (regardless of level)

Someone is bitter.....

I don't know anyone who handles those socials (and def don't myself lol), but yah I'm bitter in the sense I think the university should pick fields it can compete in and that's unlikely to be outbidding SEC schools or even some of our peer G5's on NIL deals. It may not be in social media, but it should be somewhere where the university has an existing strength or competency. Maybe if we had the fundraising of like an SMU, sure, but we don't so why not find alternate route.

I want DL to be successful and I'm cognizant that it's still incredibly early on so here's hoping...

[Bigdaddyg1]

Just imagine if the owner of your favorite NFL or NBA franchise reached out to you asking to make a contribution to help pay salaries. I realize the structures are different but there is no way anyone would do this for a pro team. How about those 30 or so massive schools just completely break away to finalize their semi pro league. The other 100 or so D1 level schools form 10 conferences of 10 schools each. Play every team in your conference and the champs move on to a regular college football playoff. Pick two wild cards and go with 12. Call it what you wish, FCS, playoff subdivision, college division 1.

[Cro-Magnon App]

You think it’ll ever drive schools to de-emphasize their programs to avoid the money grab? or drop down to a lower division? Was it Montana that left FBS to return to FCS?

[ASUFan4863]

We should/should've concentrated on what makes App different as opposed to getting into the trenches on the NIL / wannabe SEC coach train. Anyone wowed by DL's history prior to here? Let's be real about those teams and their records in aggregate...

App won't ever compete on a dollar to dollar basis so I think it was asinine to pursue a similar route from a coaching and NIL perspective. Instead take a fraction of that NIL money, invest it into App's great communications department & student/alumni run social teams. App has a social media presence far outweighing the size of our university and while I'm not on tiktok the players are (and future fans). Reach them where they are. If you can't pay the players in actual cash, pay them in media (to an extent). The university already produces great content for the team. Do more of it on a personalized basis for the players and prospective recruits. Build their social networks & have them tied to the university to the greatest extent possible. Support the alumni running some of the fan socials (hosting, access, limited support, and so on).

As far as DL, I genuinely hope it gets better, but if not I hope whoevever we get has a history of actually winning football games... (regardless of level)

Genuine question, but have you been paying attention for the past year? How would you expect Loggains to build that type of program in 1 short offseason after being hired in early December?

This is the double edged sword of the fanbase. The fanbase wants to win and SAYS they want to build a different type of program than the portal/NIL but they don’t have the patience for that to occur.

[CornCobPipes]

Only guaranteed culture we have left is the fall leaves

[appchicago]

You think it’ll ever drive schools to de-emphasize their programs to avoid the money grab? or drop down to a lower division? Was it Montana that left FBS to return to FCS?

Idaho. Our former Sun Belt conference mate, back when Idaho and NMSU were strange little western outposts for the SBC.

I think what’s more likely is that the top teams in the SEC and Big Ten will jump to hyperspace and form a super league. Even those conferences aren’t internally on even ground. Schools like Mississippi State, Maryland, Purdue, etc. may occasionally compete okay on the field, but they’re way behind their “peers” in terms of money. I expect the Ohio States and Texases of the world to further solidify the separation between haves and have-nots within the decade.

[BambooRdApp]

We should/should've concentrated on what makes App different as opposed to getting into the trenches on the NIL / wannabe SEC coach train. Anyone wowed by DL's history prior to here? Let's be real about those teams and their records in aggregate...

App won't ever compete on a dollar to dollar basis so I think it was asinine to pursue a similar route from a coaching and NIL perspective. Instead take a fraction of that NIL money, invest it into App's great communications department & student/alumni run social teams. App has a social media presence far outweighing the size of our university and while I'm not on tiktok the players are (and future fans). Reach them where they are. If you can't pay the players in actual cash, pay them in media (to an extent). The university already produces great content for the team. Do more of it on a personalized basis for the players and prospective recruits. Build their social networks & have them tied to the university to the greatest extent possible. Support the alumni running some of the fan socials (hosting, access, limited support, and so on).

As far as DL, I genuinely hope it gets better, but if not I hope whoevever we get has a history of actually winning football games... (regardless of level)

Genuine question, but have you been paying attention for the past year? How would you expect Loggains to build that type of program in 1 short offseason after being hired in early December?

This is the double edged sword of the fanbase. The fanbase wants to win and SAYS they want to build a different type of program than the portal/NIL but they don’t have the patience for that to occur.

I am not sure you can build a strong program in current environment without NIL being a strong part of the program. Before the beginning of last basketball season, UNC thought they could lure players to Chapel Hill due primarily to the name and history. They lost out to other schools two or three big men to fill a desperate need. Yes, some will choose a school for an opportunity to win. However, schools will have to pony up dollars to a certain extent. For App. St., that is not competing with SEC or other Power schools. That is competing with Group peer schools and doing well recruiting players out of high school. The coaching staff needs time.
Social media branding is not going to get us there in terms of finishing/closing the deal. It may get out foot in the door potentially. Most football players in our primary recruiting territory know who App. St. is.

Thanks to the GOAT coach and previous coaches and players that made it happen. We have to return to getting great recruits and supplementing it with transfers. NIL plays a part in that. Assuming DLo is here for 4 or 5 years and we progress, I would think we have another heavy portal year and then year 3 may be where the high school recruits show their presence if the coaching staff turn out to be great recruiters. Just my opinion.

[Bigdaddyg1]

There is simply no way we will win consistently with half (or more) of a new roster each season. I simply don’t believe that we can lure studs from the Portal. What is the percentage of college football players who are actually being paid a significant amount of money? I’m not sure what significant really means but over $100k per season? I also have asked and wondered what the evaluation process entails for a majority of players in the Portal. Are we trying to just get available big dudes for the offensive line? Seems like the availability for G5 teams is closer to scrap heap- no offense intended towards players but isn’t that the reality?

[boonetodd]

Could we drop back down to fcs? It’s better than going 4-8 or 5-7 which seems to be the path we are heading.