FB at No. 24 JMU, 3:30 p.m., ESPN+

[AppStFan1]

Anecdotal, but he's not engaging during Mountaineer Walk. My kids no longer break from the tailgate to watch it. For years they would stop everything to make sure they got to participate in that.

That is not shocking. I wish he would but I am not going to call for his job because he does not do it. That is just his personality.

Don’t read more than is written. Your jump to conclusions mat should stay in the closet.

I am not jumping to any conclusion? I am just saying that does not shock me is all.

[AppStFan1]

Again. that makes zero sense in relation to what I was speaking about. Is there a comment where I was worshiping someone? Some of yall are itching for a fight so bad you pick one where it’s not warranted. Appstatefan1 has been a big DLO advocate. I’m busting his chops a bit and he’s responding in kind. I actually respect his responses. These other drive by’s are useless

I am being an advocate for being fair to him is all. It is too early to know if he will get us where we want to be and I don't want other coaches to see us make snap decisions and then avoid us. We want to be a place that coaches want to use as a stepping stone. Drink had his big year in year 4 at Missouri. It would not shock me if Loggains is going to need 3-4 years.

I respect your position and optimism. I’m not not there with him yet. I hope he changes my mind

He has definitely made some decisions I question but that is always going to happen with a first-year head coach. I think you need to see how his high school recruiting class looks, what we do in the portal, what staff changes he makes, and see how Loggains evolves from year 1 to year 2. There is a buyout to consider and we don't want to scare future potential head coaches off. I just think those who are mad he won't approach them or that he closed the building and practices off more than some self-entitled boosters or media like is not a fair reason to critique him. If we can beat Arkansas State and win a bowl game then we would certainly have some good momentum entering the signing day and the portal.

I don't really have an issue with Coach Loggains as and HC. Yes it is a new position and he is learning g a bit as he goes, but I like how he has approached it so far other than the fact that he insists on being the OC. I truly hope he considers hiring a dedicated OC next year.

I get why he would not want to give it up. He has done it so long and it is something he loves to do. There are some head coaches who call the plays so it can work but that is not always the case. I will be curious to see if he hires someone this off-season. Rumors are that he has recently been told to but I guess we will see.

[AppStFan1]

Anecdotal, but he's not engaging during Mountaineer Walk. My kids no longer break from the tailgate to watch it. For years they would stop everything to make sure they got to participate in that.

That is not shocking. I wish he would but I am not going to call for his job because he does not do it. That is just his personality.

Don’t read more than is written. Your jump to conclusions mat should stay in the closet.

Now you’ve done it. You made Saint and I see eye to eye.

No one is calling for his job because of the on field product. And yes, you need to trust the process. However, there are instances where situations occur that make one question the hire being the right fit. Everyone has good and bad qualities. Sometimes you can tolerate the bad because of the good. That goes for coaches as well as over zealous donors. I don’t expect DLo to walk up to me with my favorite drink in hand and hit on me. But when you rely on the generosity of others to fund your program then you have to put forth some proactive effort to press the flesh.

Are there other things that are going on behind the scenes that are cause for concern? Absolutely. Are there things going on behind the scenes that resemble some of the same stuff that went on last year? Apparently so. And yes, just like you can fire an alum with an overall winning % over .500 and get someone to take the job, there are ways to remove a coach after one year without firing them and someone else will take the job.

I get your point but if we were 10-1 nobody would be pointing that out. The Patriots had a toxic environment but people called it the Patriot Way because they were winning. I kept reading people here and on 247 complain of lack of coach continuity as to why the offense would struggle and we should let this play out. If we are worse or no better in year 3 then we should consider a change.

[Saint3333]

Anecdotal, but he's not engaging during Mountaineer Walk. My kids no longer break from the tailgate to watch it. For years they would stop everything to make sure they got to participate in that.

That is not shocking. I wish he would but I am not going to call for his job because he does not do it. That is just his personality.

Don’t read more than is written. Your jump to conclusions mat should stay in the closet.

I am not jumping to any conclusion? I am just saying that does not shock me is all.

Freudian slip on the question mark here.

[AppSt94]

Anecdotal, but he's not engaging during Mountaineer Walk. My kids no longer break from the tailgate to watch it. For years they would stop everything to make sure they got to participate in that.

That is not shocking. I wish he would but I am not going to call for his job because he does not do it. That is just his personality.

Don’t read more than is written. Your jump to conclusions mat should stay in the closet.

Now you’ve done it. You made Saint and I see eye to eye.

No one is calling for his job because of the on field product. And yes, you need to trust the process. However, there are instances where situations occur that make one question the hire being the right fit. Everyone has good and bad qualities. Sometimes you can tolerate the bad because of the good. That goes for coaches as well as over zealous donors. I don’t expect DLo to walk up to me with my favorite drink in hand and hit on me. But when you rely on the generosity of others to fund your program then you have to put forth some proactive effort to press the flesh.

Are there other things that are going on behind the scenes that are cause for concern? Absolutely. Are there things going on behind the scenes that resemble some of the same stuff that went on last year? Apparently so. And yes, just like you can fire an alum with an overall winning % over .500 and get someone to take the job, there are ways to remove a coach after one year without firing them and someone else will take the job.

I get your point but if we were 10-1 nobody would be pointing that out. The Patriots had a toxic environment but people called it the Patriot Way because they were winning. I kept reading people here and on 247 complain of lack of coach continuity as to why the offense would struggle and we should let this play out. If we are worse or no better in year 3 then we should consider a change.

So the argument against keeping last years staff was that it won’t get better under their watch. So you are willing to wait and see if this staff can do it? I understand the point and agree to an extent. But if those in charge can see that it’s a bad fit, then why wait? Again, you are looking at it from a wins and losses standpoint alone. Thats what fans do. And I do agree that he has had only 11 months. But we don’t have the luxury of seeing behind the curtain everyday. If we were 10-1 then that would mean that we were executing better and we were fortunate with injuries. And yes, folks would tolerate the bad because of the good. But going 10-1 against one of the softest schedules in CFB isn’t a flex. Going 5-6 against it with “96 years of NFL experience” seems meh.

You enjoy comparing things to the NFL. This isn’t the NFL. It’s college football. You can take elements of the NFL operation and incorporate them, but you can’t have a sustainable model that replicates the NFL. Especially at this level.

[T-Dog]

Not the point of your post, but mountaineer talk is on Tuesday this week.

Yeah they announced it after I posted. Adam Witten drives up from the Triad for that. Seems like something they could have announced back in August because we all knew when Thanksgiving was.

[ASUFan4863]

That is not shocking. I wish he would but I am not going to call for his job because he does not do it. That is just his personality.

Don’t read more than is written. Your jump to conclusions mat should stay in the closet.

Now you’ve done it. You made Saint and I see eye to eye.

No one is calling for his job because of the on field product. And yes, you need to trust the process. However, there are instances where situations occur that make one question the hire being the right fit. Everyone has good and bad qualities. Sometimes you can tolerate the bad because of the good. That goes for coaches as well as over zealous donors. I don’t expect DLo to walk up to me with my favorite drink in hand and hit on me. But when you rely on the generosity of others to fund your program then you have to put forth some proactive effort to press the flesh.

Are there other things that are going on behind the scenes that are cause for concern? Absolutely. Are there things going on behind the scenes that resemble some of the same stuff that went on last year? Apparently so. And yes, just like you can fire an alum with an overall winning % over .500 and get someone to take the job, there are ways to remove a coach after one year without firing them and someone else will take the job.

I get your point but if we were 10-1 nobody would be pointing that out. The Patriots had a toxic environment but people called it the Patriot Way because they were winning. I kept reading people here and on 247 complain of lack of coach continuity as to why the offense would struggle and we should let this play out. If we are worse or no better in year 3 then we should consider a change.

So the argument against keeping last years staff was that it won’t get better under their watch. So you are willing to wait and see if this staff can do it? I understand the point and agree to an extent. But if those in charge can see that it’s a bad fit, then why wait? Again, you are looking at it from a wins and losses standpoint alone. Thats what fans do. And I do agree that he has had only 11 months. But we don’t have the luxury of seeing behind the curtain everyday. If we were 10-1 then that would mean that we were executing better and we were fortunate with injuries. And yes, folks would tolerate the bad because of the good. But going 10-1 against one of the softest schedules in CFB isn’t a flex. Going 5-6 against it with “96 years of NFL experience” seems meh.

You enjoy comparing things to the NFL. This isn’t the NFL. It’s college football. You can take elements of the NFL operation and incorporate them, but you can’t have a sustainable model that replicates the NFL. Especially at this level.

The argument against last years staff was that they were in year 5 and the program has cratered under their watch. This staff is in year 1 with an abbreviated offseason and is producing the exact same results with less continuity and less playing experience. Don’t you think that proves in of itself that a change was necessary?

Are you publicly advocating for another firing because you believe he isn’t a good fit because he doesn’t make drinking buddies like Clark did?

[Seattleapp]

The argument against last years staff was that they were in year 5 and the program has cratered under their watch. This staff is in year 1 with an abbreviated offseason and is producing the exact same results with less continuity and less playing experience. Don’t you think that proves in of itself that a change was necessary? Are you publicly advocating for another firing because you believe he isn’t a good fit because he doesn’t make drinking buddies like Clark did?

One could also point out that we are an abjectly bad football team this year under DLO. Everyone is pointing to the Marshall game as some breakthrough moment with this staff, but Marshall out gained us by like 175 yards and turned it over 3 times. It wasn’t like the lightbulb went off and we kicked their ass. Our guys get all the credit for being opportunistic and winning but I’d argue they won despite the coaching getting in the way. Everyone is really hoping DLO brings in some amazing class and suddenly learns to be an in game coach, but that is still up for debate. And you throw in him seeming like he wants to be somewhere else all the time and that makes for a nervous fan base. Like others have said, if we are in James Madison’s shoes right now folks will just shrug at a coaches personality. But we haven’t been good all season and if the guy who’s steering that ship is not too interested in his fan base it’s not a good look.

[Saint3333]

The 2024 team beats the 2025 team by a score maybe more. That says more about the Jimmy and Joes than Xs and Os though.

[ASUFan4863]

I implore Yosef94 & others to listen to Coach Loggains’ last answer today during the press conference. Tell me he’s not bought in or a good fit after listening to that. He is extremely passionate about the players and this place and he wants to get this thing back to the top where it deserves.

[rbarthle17]

Like others have said, if we are in James Madison’s shoes right now folks will just shrug at a coaches personality. But we haven’t been good all season and if the guy who’s steering that ship is not too interested in his fan base it’s not a good look.

Maybe it's just me but I'd be more worried if a coach in our situation spends one iota of time worrying about what a bunch of people sitting at home typing away on a keyboard thinks of him. Pretty much everything else he has to focus on with regards to App State football is more important than we are.

The man was hired to build and coach a football program. Unless it's in his contract that he has to play nice to the fans, then if he chooses not to that's fine by me. If he does make time to do it, it's a bonus.

[AppStFan1]

Don’t read more than is written. Your jump to conclusions mat should stay in the closet.

Now you’ve done it. You made Saint and I see eye to eye.

No one is calling for his job because of the on field product. And yes, you need to trust the process. However, there are instances where situations occur that make one question the hire being the right fit. Everyone has good and bad qualities. Sometimes you can tolerate the bad because of the good. That goes for coaches as well as over zealous donors. I don’t expect DLo to walk up to me with my favorite drink in hand and hit on me. But when you rely on the generosity of others to fund your program then you have to put forth some proactive effort to press the flesh.

Are there other things that are going on behind the scenes that are cause for concern? Absolutely. Are there things going on behind the scenes that resemble some of the same stuff that went on last year? Apparently so. And yes, just like you can fire an alum with an overall winning % over .500 and get someone to take the job, there are ways to remove a coach after one year without firing them and someone else will take the job.

I get your point but if we were 10-1 nobody would be pointing that out. The Patriots had a toxic environment but people called it the Patriot Way because they were winning. I kept reading people here and on 247 complain of lack of coach continuity as to why the offense would struggle and we should let this play out. If we are worse or no better in year 3 then we should consider a change.

So the argument against keeping last years staff was that it won’t get better under their watch. So you are willing to wait and see if this staff can do it? I understand the point and agree to an extent. But if those in charge can see that it’s a bad fit, then why wait? Again, you are looking at it from a wins and losses standpoint alone. Thats what fans do. And I do agree that he has had only 11 months. But we don’t have the luxury of seeing behind the curtain everyday. If we were 10-1 then that would mean that we were executing better and we were fortunate with injuries. And yes, folks would tolerate the bad because of the good. But going 10-1 against one of the softest schedules in CFB isn’t a flex. Going 5-6 against it with “96 years of NFL experience” seems meh.

You enjoy comparing things to the NFL. This isn’t the NFL. It’s college football. You can take elements of the NFL operation and incorporate them, but you can’t have a sustainable model that replicates the NFL. Especially at this level.

The argument against last years staff was that they were in year 5 and the program has cratered under their watch. This staff is in year 1 with an abbreviated offseason and is producing the exact same results with less continuity and less playing experience. Don’t you think that proves in of itself that a change was necessary?

Are you publicly advocating for another firing because you believe he isn’t a good fit because he doesn’t make drinking buddies like Clark did?

My argument is the last staff had 5 years and it was getting worse while Loggains hasn’t even been here a year. I don’t know if it’s a bad fit. I know you didn’t want him to begin with and you thought early on he would not be good but we need to be fair and give it a chance. I also understand the macro and micro here of making a change now because f the buyout and how it looks in the coaching world. I also know that Drink needed 4 years at Missouri and many other coaches needed more than 1 year. I never expected to be 8-4. I heard people say they think we would be better than people expect but 5-7 or 6-6 was a fair expectation. I expected 3-9 or 4-8 if the previous staff returned. The frustrating part to me is that we had a couple games we could have won but that’s how it goes sometimes. I’m sure if not for devastating injuries and dismissals we probably have 2 more wins.

[AppStFan1]

Like others have said, if we are in James Madison’s shoes right now folks will just shrug at a coaches personality. But we haven’t been good all season and if the guy who’s steering that ship is not too interested in his fan base it’s not a good look.

Maybe it's just me but I'd be more worried if a coach in our situation spends one iota of time worrying about what a bunch of people sitting at home typing away on a keyboard thinks of him. Pretty much everything else he has to focus on with regards to App State football is more important than we are.

The man was hired to build and coach a football program. Unless it's in his contract that he has to play nice to the fans, then if he chooses not to that's fine by me. If he does make time to do it, it's a bonus.

Bingo! Reality is some folks want Loggains to make them feel good and they want open access. If he goes out of his way then it is a bonus. I’m not bothered either way. I have a sneaking suspicion a few media members and some self-entitled boosters are in the ears of other boosters because they want to make things seem worse and get him out quick. Clark was a dream for media access and they don’t like being limited. Loggains was not my first pick either but I’m not going to pile on because I didn’t get my way. People need to grow up and give it time. If we aren’t seeing improvement by mid season in year then we should make a change.

[ASUFan4863]

Now you’ve done it. You made Saint and I see eye to eye.

No one is calling for his job because of the on field product. And yes, you need to trust the process. However, there are instances where situations occur that make one question the hire being the right fit. Everyone has good and bad qualities. Sometimes you can tolerate the bad because of the good. That goes for coaches as well as over zealous donors. I don’t expect DLo to walk up to me with my favorite drink in hand and hit on me. But when you rely on the generosity of others to fund your program then you have to put forth some proactive effort to press the flesh.

Are there other things that are going on behind the scenes that are cause for concern? Absolutely. Are there things going on behind the scenes that resemble some of the same stuff that went on last year? Apparently so. And yes, just like you can fire an alum with an overall winning % over .500 and get someone to take the job, there are ways to remove a coach after one year without firing them and someone else will take the job.

I get your point but if we were 10-1 nobody would be pointing that out. The Patriots had a toxic environment but people called it the Patriot Way because they were winning. I kept reading people here and on 247 complain of lack of coach continuity as to why the offense would struggle and we should let this play out. If we are worse or no better in year 3 then we should consider a change.

So the argument against keeping last years staff was that it won’t get better under their watch. So you are willing to wait and see if this staff can do it? I understand the point and agree to an extent. But if those in charge can see that it’s a bad fit, then why wait? Again, you are looking at it from a wins and losses standpoint alone. Thats what fans do. And I do agree that he has had only 11 months. But we don’t have the luxury of seeing behind the curtain everyday. If we were 10-1 then that would mean that we were executing better and we were fortunate with injuries. And yes, folks would tolerate the bad because of the good. But going 10-1 against one of the softest schedules in CFB isn’t a flex. Going 5-6 against it with “96 years of NFL experience” seems meh.

You enjoy comparing things to the NFL. This isn’t the NFL. It’s college football. You can take elements of the NFL operation and incorporate them, but you can’t have a sustainable model that replicates the NFL. Especially at this level.

The argument against last years staff was that they were in year 5 and the program has cratered under their watch. This staff is in year 1 with an abbreviated offseason and is producing the exact same results with less continuity and less playing experience. Don’t you think that proves in of itself that a change was necessary?

Are you publicly advocating for another firing because you believe he isn’t a good fit because he doesn’t make drinking buddies like Clark did?

My argument is the last staff had 5 years and it was getting worse while Loggains hasn’t even been here a year. I don’t know if it’s a bad fit. I know you didn’t want him to begin with and you thought early on he would not be good but we need to be fair and give it a chance. I also understand the macro and micro here of making a change now because f the buyout and how it looks in the coaching world. I also know that Drink needed 4 years at Missouri and many other coaches needed more than 1 year. I never expected to be 8-4. I heard people say they think we would be better than people expect but 5-7 or 6-6 was a fair expectation. I expected 3-9 or 4-8 if the previous staff returned. The frustrating part to me is that we had a couple games we could have won but that’s how it goes sometimes. I’m sure if not for devastating injuries and dismissals we probably have 2 more wins.

I believe this was meant towards Yosef94. I agree that he did not want Loggains to begin with. Yosef94 and his friends have been looking for every opportunity to attack the new staff. They also have nothing positive to say after wins. Odd.

[Bootsy]

I implore Yosef94 & others to listen to Coach Loggains’ last answer today during the press conference. Tell me he’s not bought in or a good fit after listening to that. He is extremely passionate about the players and this place and he wants to get this thing back to the top where it deserves.

That’s very encouraging to hear. I’ve never called for DL to be fired but I’ve questioned some of the actions/behaviors we’ve observed over the course of this season.

And while we’ve seen new HC’s take over other programs and have immediate success, I’m not willing to compare them to App or to each other because each situation is different. Like most of you, I loved and respected Shawn Clark. But let’s not kid ourselves: DL walked into a dumpster fire.

Rebuilds are a messy/emotional process for everyone. They aren’t pretty to watch and things can get tight when the staff has to make difficult decisions, enforce team rules, part ways with players, etc. I do give Coach Loggains credit because he’s demonstrated his willingness to make tough decisions since he arrived. Has he made mistakes? Of course, but who doesn’t make mistakes in their first year of a new job? Is he learning from those mistakes? Time will tell. Do I want him to succeed? Absolutely, because that means App State Football will be back where it belongs.

[AppStFan1]

I get your point but if we were 10-1 nobody would be pointing that out. The Patriots had a toxic environment but people called it the Patriot Way because they were winning. I kept reading people here and on 247 complain of lack of coach continuity as to why the offense would struggle and we should let this play out. If we are worse or no better in year 3 then we should consider a change.

So the argument against keeping last years staff was that it won’t get better under their watch. So you are willing to wait and see if this staff can do it? I understand the point and agree to an extent. But if those in charge can see that it’s a bad fit, then why wait? Again, you are looking at it from a wins and losses standpoint alone. Thats what fans do. And I do agree that he has had only 11 months. But we don’t have the luxury of seeing behind the curtain everyday. If we were 10-1 then that would mean that we were executing better and we were fortunate with injuries. And yes, folks would tolerate the bad because of the good. But going 10-1 against one of the softest schedules in CFB isn’t a flex. Going 5-6 against it with “96 years of NFL experience” seems meh.

You enjoy comparing things to the NFL. This isn’t the NFL. It’s college football. You can take elements of the NFL operation and incorporate them, but you can’t have a sustainable model that replicates the NFL. Especially at this level.

The argument against last years staff was that they were in year 5 and the program has cratered under their watch. This staff is in year 1 with an abbreviated offseason and is producing the exact same results with less continuity and less playing experience. Don’t you think that proves in of itself that a change was necessary?

Are you publicly advocating for another firing because you believe he isn’t a good fit because he doesn’t make drinking buddies like Clark did?

My argument is the last staff had 5 years and it was getting worse while Loggains hasn’t even been here a year. I don’t know if it’s a bad fit. I know you didn’t want him to begin with and you thought early on he would not be good but we need to be fair and give it a chance. I also understand the macro and micro here of making a change now because f the buyout and how it looks in the coaching world. I also know that Drink needed 4 years at Missouri and many other coaches needed more than 1 year. I never expected to be 8-4. I heard people say they think we would be better than people expect but 5-7 or 6-6 was a fair expectation. I expected 3-9 or 4-8 if the previous staff returned. The frustrating part to me is that we had a couple games we could have won but that’s how it goes sometimes. I’m sure if not for devastating injuries and dismissals we probably have 2 more wins.

I believe this was meant towards Yosef94. I agree that he did not want Loggains to begin with. Yosef94 and his friends have been looking for every opportunity to attack the new staff. They also have nothing positive to say after wins. Odd.

I actually have a few people in mind. I get a kick out of reading here and 247 because a few posters have a habit of disguising their opinion in the form of a question to be condescending and go silent after a win or find fault in them if they want Loggains out. The same people who complain would change their tune if Loggains went up to them to say hello and invited them to practice one day. A lot of it is agenda driven. I have seen no benefit or loss of anything in the change from Clark to Loggains. I bet the people who complain most have.

[AppSt94]

Don’t read more than is written. Your jump to conclusions mat should stay in the closet.

Now you’ve done it. You made Saint and I see eye to eye.

No one is calling for his job because of the on field product. And yes, you need to trust the process. However, there are instances where situations occur that make one question the hire being the right fit. Everyone has good and bad qualities. Sometimes you can tolerate the bad because of the good. That goes for coaches as well as over zealous donors. I don’t expect DLo to walk up to me with my favorite drink in hand and hit on me. But when you rely on the generosity of others to fund your program then you have to put forth some proactive effort to press the flesh.

Are there other things that are going on behind the scenes that are cause for concern? Absolutely. Are there things going on behind the scenes that resemble some of the same stuff that went on last year? Apparently so. And yes, just like you can fire an alum with an overall winning % over .500 and get someone to take the job, there are ways to remove a coach after one year without firing them and someone else will take the job.

I get your point but if we were 10-1 nobody would be pointing that out. The Patriots had a toxic environment but people called it the Patriot Way because they were winning. I kept reading people here and on 247 complain of lack of coach continuity as to why the offense would struggle and we should let this play out. If we are worse or no better in year 3 then we should consider a change.

So the argument against keeping last years staff was that it won’t get better under their watch. So you are willing to wait and see if this staff can do it? I understand the point and agree to an extent. But if those in charge can see that it’s a bad fit, then why wait? Again, you are looking at it from a wins and losses standpoint alone. Thats what fans do. And I do agree that he has had only 11 months. But we don’t have the luxury of seeing behind the curtain everyday. If we were 10-1 then that would mean that we were executing better and we were fortunate with injuries. And yes, folks would tolerate the bad because of the good. But going 10-1 against one of the softest schedules in CFB isn’t a flex. Going 5-6 against it with “96 years of NFL experience” seems meh.

You enjoy comparing things to the NFL. This isn’t the NFL. It’s college football. You can take elements of the NFL operation and incorporate them, but you can’t have a sustainable model that replicates the NFL. Especially at this level.

The argument against last years staff was that they were in year 5 and the program has cratered under their watch. This staff is in year 1 with an abbreviated offseason and is producing the exact same results with less continuity and less playing experience. Don’t you think that proves in of itself that a change was necessary?

Are you publicly advocating for another firing because you believe he isn’t a good fit because he doesn’t make drinking buddies like Clark did?

Since I have never advocated for the firing of anyone, I’m not about to start now. I was against the change last year in that time for reasons that I gave. Upon learning more about the situation after the fact, that were going on behind the scenes, I understand why it was made. You can assume it was made based on the on the field results if you like, but while there were discussions to make changes, that’s not what forced the change.

But I’ve also been privy to some information that tells me that nothing has changed in terms of the issues. We only changed out the leadership. The only difference between my relationship with DLo and my relationship with Shawn is that Shawn knew my name. Kerns knows my name, Sharp knows my name, Gillin knows my name. I guess in your eyes, that makes us drinking buddies. DLo was a below average NFL coach and a somewhat average college coach that no one at SC seemed to mind that he left. I know that your allegiance lies with anyone but Clark, and that’s fine, but let’s not pretend that he has done anything here that gives any indication that he is a better option.

[APPdiesel]

Wow, JMU just showed us the way...which we also did this season but everything else went off the rails...

Beating a former Pac12 team at home by 4 (JMU 24 - Washington St 20) >>>>> beating a conference foe by 32 on the road (UNT 56 - Rice 24) >>>>> Beating a conference foe on the road by 24 (Tulane 37 - Temple 13).

JMU jumped from NR to 20
UNT jumped from 22 to 21
Tulane jumped from 24 to 22

[bcoach]

Now you’ve done it. You made Saint and I see eye to eye.

No one is calling for his job because of the on field product. And yes, you need to trust the process. However, there are instances where situations occur that make one question the hire being the right fit. Everyone has good and bad qualities. Sometimes you can tolerate the bad because of the good. That goes for coaches as well as over zealous donors. I don’t expect DLo to walk up to me with my favorite drink in hand and hit on me. But when you rely on the generosity of others to fund your program then you have to put forth some proactive effort to press the flesh.

Are there other things that are going on behind the scenes that are cause for concern? Absolutely. Are there things going on behind the scenes that resemble some of the same stuff that went on last year? Apparently so. And yes, just like you can fire an alum with an overall winning % over .500 and get someone to take the job, there are ways to remove a coach after one year without firing them and someone else will take the job.

I get your point but if we were 10-1 nobody would be pointing that out. The Patriots had a toxic environment but people called it the Patriot Way because they were winning. I kept reading people here and on 247 complain of lack of coach continuity as to why the offense would struggle and we should let this play out. If we are worse or no better in year 3 then we should consider a change.

So the argument against keeping last years staff was that it won’t get better under their watch. So you are willing to wait and see if this staff can do it? I understand the point and agree to an extent. But if those in charge can see that it’s a bad fit, then why wait? Again, you are looking at it from a wins and losses standpoint alone. Thats what fans do. And I do agree that he has had only 11 months. But we don’t have the luxury of seeing behind the curtain everyday. If we were 10-1 then that would mean that we were executing better and we were fortunate with injuries. And yes, folks would tolerate the bad because of the good. But going 10-1 against one of the softest schedules in CFB isn’t a flex. Going 5-6 against it with “96 years of NFL experience” seems meh.

You enjoy comparing things to the NFL. This isn’t the NFL. It’s college football. You can take elements of the NFL operation and incorporate them, but you can’t have a sustainable model that replicates the NFL. Especially at this level.

The argument against last years staff was that they were in year 5 and the program has cratered under their watch. This staff is in year 1 with an abbreviated offseason and is producing the exact same results with less continuity and less playing experience. Don’t you think that proves in of itself that a change was necessary?

Are you publicly advocating for another firing because you believe he isn’t a good fit because he doesn’t make drinking buddies like Clark did?

Since I have never advocated for the firing of anyone, I’m not about to start now. I was against the change last year in that time for reasons that I gave. Upon learning more about the situation after the fact, that were going on behind the scenes, I understand why it was made. You can assume it was made based on the on the field results if you like, but while there were discussions to make changes, that’s not what forced the change.

But I’ve also been privy to some information that tells me that nothing has changed in terms of the issues. We only changed out the leadership. The only difference between my relationship with DLo and my relationship with Shawn is that Shawn knew my name. Kerns knows my name, Sharp knows my name, Gillin knows my name. I guess in your eyes, that makes us drinking buddies. DLo was a below average NFL coach and a somewhat average college coach that no one at SC seemed to mind that he left. I know that your allegiance lies with anyone but Clark, and that’s fine, but let’s not pretend that he has done anything here that gives any indication that he is a better option.

Very well said.

[JTApps1]

The argument against last years staff was that they were in year 5 and the program has cratered under their watch. This staff is in year 1 with an abbreviated offseason and is producing the exact same results with less continuity and less playing experience. Don’t you think that proves in of itself that a change was necessary? Are you publicly advocating for another firing because you believe he isn’t a good fit because he doesn’t make drinking buddies like Clark did?

One could also point out that we are an abjectly bad football team this year under DLO. Everyone is pointing to the Marshall game as some breakthrough moment with this staff, but Marshall out gained us by like 175 yards and turned it over 3 times. It wasn’t like the lightbulb went off and we kicked their ass. Our guys get all the credit for being opportunistic and winning but I’d argue they won despite the coaching getting in the way. Everyone is really hoping DLO brings in some amazing class and suddenly learns to be an in game coach, but that is still up for debate. And you throw in him seeming like he wants to be somewhere else all the time and that makes for a nervous fan base. Like others have said, if we are in James Madison’s shoes right now folks will just shrug at a coaches personality. But we haven’t been good all season and if the guy who’s steering that ship is not too interested in his fan base it’s not a good look.

The best thing about this win was the fight our guys showed after getting down two scores. It could have easily gone the other way especially after the performance at JMU. Loggains deserves credit for not losing the team after that beatdown. There are still plenty of questions around his in game coaching ability, but he did at least own his biggest mistake. Hopefully he learned a good lesson and can take a step forward as a coach. I think we're all very interested to see how the season ends and how recruiting goes.