Why even have Capel finish the season?

[appst89]

I know even more coaches would love to have a career like JM had at App. Some might say JM threw App under the bus at the end.

This.

[EastHallApp]

As far as keeping someone here, I guess people thought that about JM also, but 20 years later he proved them wrong, and he was fairly successful. I don't see why with the right support, the right person wouldn't stay. Not everyone wants to live in Chapel Hill or Cary.

Schools at App's level, for the most part, have two choices when hiring a coach: a young (or young-ish) first-time HC who would almost certainly leave for a bigger school if given the chance, or a coach who has already been fired from a bigger job. Some coaches in his position might still view App as a stepping stone, but others might not have either the inclination or the opportunity to go that route.

JM was a good example of the second category. By the time he did anything at App that would have attracted the attention of a bigger program, he was in his mid-60s.

[JTApps1]

ASUMountaineer said -
"I'm pretty sure Coach Moore has stated several times that he didn't know about Appalachian State, where it was located, or how to pronounce it until he got a call from Appalachian. As you said, he was quite successful--it seemed to have worked out. This isn't to counter your points, but more to just say that we shouldn't dismiss any options where/if the head men's bball coaching job becomes vacant."

Different world today my friend - even an oldhead like me knows that ---

Let me assure you guys this - if someone is interested in coming to APP as the head basketball coach he will, if he chooses too, delve into all functions of the athletics of the university. With personal friends as head coaches in BCS conferences and over my years of discussions with them believe me, they will investigate - as they should --- The coaching fraternity is very well connected and it goes across sports platforms ---

Plenty of coaches have been fired for performing better than Capel, and very few are fortunate enough to coach at one place as long as Coach Moore. I haven't noticed any schools having trouble filling an open position to be a D1 head coach. Today's coaches know how the business operates these days. I'd say App is much more lenient on coaches than the majority of schools out there.

[JCline0429]

ASUMountaineer said -
"I'm pretty sure Coach Moore has stated several times that he didn't know about Appalachian State, where it was located, or how to pronounce it until he got a call from Appalachian. As you said, he was quite successful--it seemed to have worked out. This isn't to counter your points, but more to just say that we shouldn't dismiss any options where/if the head men's bball coaching job becomes vacant."

Different world today my friend - even an oldhead like me knows that ---

Let me assure you guys this - if someone is interested in coming to APP as the head basketball coach he will, if he chooses too, delve into all functions of the athletics of the university. With personal friends as head coaches in BCS conferences and over my years of discussions with them believe me, they will investigate - as they should --- The coaching fraternity is very well connected and it goes across sports platforms ---

Plenty of coaches have been fired for performing better than Capel, and very few are fortunate enough to coach at one place as long as Coach Moore. I haven't noticed any schools having trouble filling an open position to be a D1 head coach. Today's coaches know how the business operates these days. I'd say App is much more lenient on coaches than the majority of schools out there.

"I haven't noticed any schools having trouble filling an open position to be a D1 head coach."

But do they always get the caliber of coach that they want or need?

[Maddog1956]

After the JM debacle, we're not going to rated too high on that scale anyway so maybe letting him finish will show that we don't throw all our coaches under the bus.

If having the same head coaching job for over 20 years is getting thrown under the bus, I am sure App can attract a few volunteers.

If being "fired" after 20 years, three NC, every award a coach can win (including the National Coach of the Year), increasing attendance from 13,500 to over 25,000 in 3 years, bringing in money like crazy, etc. isn't being thrown under that bus, I know some coaches that would disagree with you. And that's what we're talking of here, coaches opinion not fans.

I know even more coaches would love to have a career like JM had at App. Some might say JM threw App under the bus at the end.

Almost any coach with his record would have could have had a career like his almost anywhere. Very seldom does a winning, nationally honored coach get fired. (Yes being asked to leave is being fired in my definition.) I serious doubt anyone (except maybe on here) would consider getting fired as throwing your employer "under that bus". You may feel that way, but if you search the net most of the sentiment there doesn't agree with that conclusion. (I'm thinking from the point of a coach reading it)

Also keeping the topic in perspective my point was, do we want another coach let go under less than mutual parting? I have a feeling that if Capel doesn't pull his record up, he'll leave at the end of the year gladly with no misunderstanding and without another debacle (no matter who is at fault). I can't think that cutting him early is going to send any better message when we go to hire a replacement. Plus unless we getting someone currently out of work who would we replace him with.

[Maddog1956]

Plenty of coaches have been fired for performing better than Capel, and very few are fortunate enough to coach at one place as long as Coach Moore. I haven't noticed any schools having trouble filling an open position to be a D1 head coach. Today's coaches know how the business operates these days. I'd say App is much more lenient on coaches than the majority of schools out there.

We sure seem to be having a problem fill a open position to be a D1 head coach. I'm going on the assumption that by "filling" we talking about getting someone good and qualified, that we don't want to fire half way through the year.

We might be lenient because we can't fill the position, but very seldom do I see a school fire the coach until the end of the season, except for legal problem, abuse, etc.

[JTApps1]

Plenty of coaches have been fired for performing better than Capel, and very few are fortunate enough to coach at one place as long as Coach Moore. I haven't noticed any schools having trouble filling an open position to be a D1 head coach. Today's coaches know how the business operates these days. I'd say App is much more lenient on coaches than the majority of schools out there.

We sure seem to be having a problem fill a open position to be a D1 head coach. I'm going on the assumption that by "filling" we talking about getting someone good and qualified, that we don't want to fire half way through the year.

We might be lenient because we can't fill the position, but very seldom do I see a school fire the coach until the end of the season, except for legal problem, abuse, etc.

If we didn't let local politics get involved we would have had a much more qualified coach than what we have now. It has nothing to do with lack of interest from qualified coaches. We shot ourselves in the foot last time.

[TheMoody1]

(Yes being asked to leave is being fired in my definition.) I serious doubt anyone (except maybe on here) would consider getting fired as throwing your employer "under that bus".

I guess it comes down to which story you believe.

[Maddog1956]

(Yes being asked to leave is being fired in my definition.) I serious doubt anyone (except maybe on here) would consider getting fired as throwing your employer "under that bus".

I guess it comes down to which story you believe.

I'm not even saying the truth matters as much as the process and the impression it leaves. No matter what anyone believes as far as who was wrong and who was right, it was a debacle all the same. The coverage it received proves that. The point in my post was I see very little to gain by firing Capel now and it could leave a negative impression about how we treat coaches for all to see (justly deserved or not).

I'm not saying that it would be the deciding factor, but it's just like recruiting a player a good one is going to have options.

[Maddog1956]

I acknowledged that by stating that my post wasn't to counter your points. I made it clear that I was simply offering that it had happened at App before. Obviously, it's a different situation nowadays, and I would be shocked if there's a coach that would take the job, "site unseen."

I seen that after I posted, point taken!

And as Forrest Gump would say "And that's all I have to say about that", lol.

[TheMoody1]

I see very little to gain by firing Capel now

I agree.

[roachgone]

Idea for bumper sticker--- ASU BASKETBALL- IT'S IN-CAPEL-BLE

[asutrnr81]

"90% of the basketball coaches who would or could come to App in a coach change have NO idea about JM either good or bad"

Where do you get that figure? I don't know if I disagree with you or not, but just curious as to how you figure 90% or any other percentage.

Honestly, I pulled it straight out of my ********. I have been and am around a lot of coaches and they think highly of them selves. Their ego's for the most part will make them "invincible".

Different world today my friend - even an oldhead like me knows that ---

Let me assure you guys this - if someone is interested in coming to APP as the head basketball coach he will, if he chooses too, delve into all functions of the athletics of the university. With personal friends as head coaches in BCS conferences and over my years of discussions with them believe me, they will investigate - as they should --- The coaching fraternity is very well connected and it goes across sports platforms ---

I agree with you to a point....and that point is when they ask themselves/say to themselves: I am better than he was and I can win, let ego get in the way, view the opportunity as better than the situation they find themselves in, or believe is they step into OUR quagmire, and produce a winner they will move along quite quickly and quite upwardly.

I can't find it but to whomever compared Jerry's moving to this and how JM was "treated" or "treated ASU".....Jerry was 50ish when he made his move to App. By any standard in "MOST" situations was nearing the end of a career. Luckily he out-stayed and out-won and out-successed that liability. But there are not many JM's in the world and his story is unusual. Unbelievable too! (In a good way!) I still contend we are a stepping stone and will be....come here and move up or come here and be OK and come here leave and be a long term assistant.

It is OK, but in the history of ASU outside of JM, in the two major men's sports, in the modern age, came here, won at a 60% rate and stayed? 5 years or more? IDK...but I am guessing none. The reason I chose 60% because if we won at a 60% rate in basketball I think we might be talking about extending Capel, but 60% in football over 3-4 years and we are going to be hooting for a change.

Bottom line, coaches have ego's that are huge....the way "someone" got treated has little to do with taking or not taking a job! (Might want to check out USC).

Later!

[JCline0429]

After reading all the posts in this thread, I still don't see what would be gained by firing Jason Capel in mid-season. Do we think one of Coach Capel's protégés could and would do a better job than him for the rest of the season? Do we think we can find a quality coach who is under contract who could and would leave their position mid-season? Do we think there is a quality candidate who is presently without a job so as to step in immediately? Do we have the money available to pay Capel the remainder of his contract as well as pay another coach his salary for the interim? How long would it take to find a quality Division I candidate that the big donors would approve of, since that is who basically made the decision to fire Fancher, hire Buzz and then hire Capel?

IMOP, it would be totally unethical for the A.D. to be talking to other prospective candidates while the present coach is still active on the job. Most A.D.'s would ask permission to talk to a coach already under conteact.