It's not over yet

JCline0429 · Unread post by **JCline0429** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:57 am

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-footba ... ue2-030514

Kgfish · Unread post by **Kgfish** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:26 am

$5K seems to be a fair trade for a $80K education, professional coaching, 3 nutritionally selected and prepared meals per day, professional strength and conditioning staff, professional training and medical staff, private tutors, priority scheduling of classes, being flown around the nation for free, staying in 4 & 5 star hotels, and a professional public relations staff constantly promoting your accomplishments to professional football teams.

bcoach · Unread post by **bcoach** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:45 pm

Kgfish wrote:$5K seems to be a fair trade for a $80K education, professional coaching, 3 nutritionally selected and prepared meals per day, professional strength and conditioning staff, professional training and medical staff, private tutors, priority scheduling of classes, being flown around the nation for free, staying in 4 & 5 star hotels, and a professional public relations staff constantly promoting your accomplishments to professional football teams.

Well said. I would only add the privilege of playing a sport you claim to love.

JCline0429 · Unread post by **JCline0429** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:32 pm

Kgfish wrote:$5K seems to be a fair trade for a $80K education, professional coaching, 3 nutritionally selected and prepared meals per day, professional strength and conditioning staff, professional training and medical staff, private tutors, priority scheduling of classes, being flown around the nation for free, staying in 4 & 5 star hotels, and a professional public relations staff constantly promoting your accomplishments to professional football teams.

Yep

huskie3 · Unread post by **huskie3** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:06 pm

In the not too distant future paying the players may be the norm, but it will not be colleges doing the paying. Already in girls AAU they are forming a 30 team elite league (sponsored by Nike)where they will be playing each other. This is to help lessen the stress to their body (knees in particular) and to provide top level competition on more consistent basis. There is talk to do the same with boys, even to the point of a new D-league supported by NBA. I think soccer is already doing something like this with their development teams.

Maddog1956 · Unread post by **Maddog1956** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:07 pm

Kgfish wrote:$5K seems to be a fair trade for a $80K education, professional coaching, 3 nutritionally selected and prepared meals per day, professional strength and conditioning staff, professional training and medical staff, private tutors, priority scheduling of classes, being flown around the nation for free, staying in 4 & 5 star hotels, and a professional public relations staff constantly promoting your accomplishments to professional football teams.

That's fine, they just shouldn't call it a "Full Scholarship" if it isn't.

Plus it's not having time to study, performing a full time job for no pay, giving up a huge amount of your "free time", etc. Not saying it's a bad deal, but it should be clear what's covered. If it isn't it's almost always considered the fault of the person drawing up the contract.

If they average 5 hours a day for 200 days a year @ $15/hour that would be $60k over 4 years and $75k over 5 (which most likely is average)

The numbers can be adjusted anyway someone wants but it's easy to see that they aren't getting anything for "free". I like fishing too, but someone would have to pay me well to get me to do it for them.

Or in the case of football, we can determine worth by the income they sharing in bringing to the school.

Having said all that, I doubt that there is much legal recourse however. They should just make it clear what is covered and what isn't.

bcoach · Unread post by **bcoach** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:26 pm

Well if we are going to go there then I think we need to pay the trainers who average closer to 8 hours a day and many time more. Can't get another job and still have to study. No training table and ride in a van. They are there before the players arrive and are there after they leave and get no scholarship money at all.
If we use the same math that comes to $96,000 for 4 years. By the way nobody even says nice game to them. They are not in any pictures and nobody asks for their autograph. They make sure these players are ready to play. They do it for the love of it. It's called dedication. Maybe players who think they are getting short changed could learn a lesson from the trainers.

Maddog1956 · Unread post by **Maddog1956** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:52 pm

bcoach wrote:Well if we are going to go there then I think we need to pay the trainers who average closer to 8 hours a day and many time more. Can't get another job and still have to study. No training table and ride in a van. They are there before the players arrive and are there after they leave and get no scholarship money at all.
If we use the same math that comes to $96,000 for 4 years. By the way nobody even says nice game to them. They are not in any pictures and nobody asks for their autograph. They make sure these players are ready to play. They do it for the love of it. It's called dedication. Maybe players who think they are getting short changed could learn a lesson from the trainers.

No problem there, if they have to offer scholarships to get trainers, because there are only certain kids in the country that can do it, let them (supply and demand).

I just hear a lot of comments that these kids are being "given" something for free so they should "shut up". I don't see it as getting something for free, they're getting paid to do certain jobs and it should be clear how much. If it is, I'm fine with it.

Maybe the players are learning a lesson from their coaches (instead of the trainer), who love the game too. They make very good money and no one sees them as "takers".

All in favor of no scholarships and unpaid coaches raise your hand....didn't think so.

bcoach · Unread post by **bcoach** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:04 pm

Maddog1956 wrote:
bcoach wrote:Well if we are going to go there then I think we need to pay the trainers who average closer to 8 hours a day and many time more. Can't get another job and still have to study. No training table and ride in a van. They are there before the players arrive and are there after they leave and get no scholarship money at all.
If we use the same math that comes to $96,000 for 4 years. By the way nobody even says nice game to them. They are not in any pictures and nobody asks for their autograph. They make sure these players are ready to play. They do it for the love of it. It's called dedication. Maybe players who think they are getting short changed could learn a lesson from the trainers.
No problem there, if they have to offer scholarships to get trainers, because there are only certain kids in the country that can do it, let them (supply and demand).

I just hear a lot of comments that these kids are being "given" something for free so they should "shut up". I don't see it as getting something for free, they're getting paid to do certain jobs and it should be clear how much. If it is, I'm fine with it.

Maybe the players are learning a lesson from their coaches (instead of the trainer), who love the game too. They make very good money and no one sees them as "takers".

All in favor of no scholarships and unpaid coaches raise your hand....didn't think so.

I am ok with no scholarships. When it comes to coaches many are way over compensated but it is a little different. They have already gotten their education and are now in the working world.
I will never say players are being given something for free but I will say they are being justly compensated for the privilege of playing a game.

MAD Doctor · Unread post by **MAD Doctor** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:52 pm

Overheard yesterday:
While the University of South Carolina will certainly miss the contributions of Jadaveon Clowney, they were able to clear a good bit of cap space.

appbio91 · Unread post by **appbio91** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:16 pm

The scholarships cover everything related to education and athletics. He is whining about gas money and other "necessities". I don't buy food as I am sure the scholarship includes a meal plan. A full ride is a full ride in terms of what you and me had to pay the university he did not. We all know that the college experience is more than athletics and education. Social life is a huge part of it and that costs money. Should the university pay for that too?

appdaze · Unread post by **appdaze** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:31 pm

appbio91 wrote: Social life is a huge part of it and that costs money. Should the university pay for that too?

only if you go to duke!

Kgfish · Unread post by **Kgfish** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:45 pm

Maddog1956 wrote:
Kgfish wrote:$5K seems to be a fair trade for a $80K education, professional coaching, 3 nutritionally selected and prepared meals per day, professional strength and conditioning staff, professional training and medical staff, private tutors, priority scheduling of classes, being flown around the nation for free, staying in 4 & 5 star hotels, and a professional public relations staff constantly promoting your accomplishments to professional football teams.
That's fine, they just shouldn't call it a "Full Scholarship" if it isn't.

Plus it's not having time to study, performing a full time job for no pay, giving up a huge amount of your "free time", etc. Not saying it's a bad deal, but it should be clear what's covered. If it isn't it's almost always considered the fault of the person drawing up the contract.

If they average 5 hours a day for 200 days a year @ $15/hour that would be $60k over 4 years and $75k over 5 (which most likely is average)

The numbers can be adjusted anyway someone wants but it's easy to see that they aren't getting anything for "free". I like fishing too, but someone would have to pay me well to get me to do it for them.

Or in the case of football, we can determine worth by the income they sharing in bringing to the school.

Having said all that, I doubt that there is much legal recourse however. They should just make it clear what is covered and what isn't.

What do you mean performing a full time job for no pay? All that stuff that comes with a scholarship IS pay. The athletic grant is a simple contract between the player and school. An exchange for a free education for athletic performance. End of discussion. Nobody made these players take the offer. They chose to do so by their own free will.

As far as the income sharing stuff goes. Welcome to the real world baby! When a company makes a big profit should the employees be entitled to any of it? Did they not agree to do the job for an agreed upon amount of compensation? If the company falls on its face are the employees going to give back any of their compensation? Prob not. These players are thrilled when they get these opportunities. If they don't know upfront what they are getting in to somebody at that school isn't doing their job. Not to mention the investment made by the university before a player ever sets foot on campus. What about all the money spent building first class facilities for them to perfect and showcase their talents? Does that not count? It's stuff like this makes me think the NCAA should do away with all athletic scholarships and make them strictly academic grants. No tutors, training table, or those other perks athletes enjoy. And btw, If they don't maintain a certain GPA the grant is yanked. Wonder how much bitching they would do then.

Maddog1956 · Unread post by **Maddog1956** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:34 am

Kgfish wrote:
What do you mean performing a full time job for no pay? All that stuff that comes with a scholarship IS pay. The athletic grant is a simple contract between the player and school. An exchange for a free education for athletic performance. End of discussion. Nobody made these players take the offer. They chose to do so by their own free will.

As far as the income sharing stuff goes. Welcome to the real world baby! When a company makes a big profit should the employees be entitled to any of it? Did they not agree to do the job for an agreed upon amount of compensation? If the company falls on its face are the employees going to give back any of their compensation? Prob not. These players are thrilled when they get these opportunities. If they don't know upfront what they are getting in to somebody at that school isn't doing their job. Not to mention the investment made by the university before a player ever sets foot on campus. What about all the money spent building first class facilities for them to perfect and showcase their talents? Does that not count? It's stuff like this makes me think the NCAA should do away with all athletic scholarships and make them strictly academic grants. No tutors, training table, or those other perks athletes enjoy. And btw, If they don't maintain a certain GPA the grant is yanked. Wonder how much bitching they would do then.

That's my point, you implied that he got $80K education and the other benefits for $5k so he got a "fair trade". I'm just stating that he got a $80k education for $5k AND 5 years of work (a $50k -$100k value). It still may be a "fair trade" but it's not as one sided as you implied. As a matter of fact the college may be the one "making" out.

Sure they do, it started back with Henry Ford and is still in place with many good companies. Ask some of the first people that started with Apple, Microsoft, Facebook how many billions they got to share. In the sports world check out the NFL and see how much revenue sharing they have. Ask a Food Lion or Lowes employee, that's the real world, baby! About the only place that I know of that don't have revenue sharing is government. (A sole owner, shares all the revenue). You're always saying it's a dollars and cents issue, that they should cut the sports that don't bring in any money, that colleges can't afford to fund everything. I'm just saying should that hold true for players? Should they "cut" the colleges that can't fund them to the level they want to be funded? If it's just a money issue, it has to be one both way.

I don't know what his agreement was, but if it's clear cut (he got what he agreed to, the case won't see the light of day), if it isn't he has the right to be compensated.

I just wanted to make the comment that he didn't receive a $80k education for ONLY $5K. I find it funny how people put so little value on other peoples time and such great value on their own.

Maddog1956 · Unread post by **Maddog1956** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:39 am

appbio91 wrote:The scholarships cover everything related to education and athletics. He is whining about gas money and other "necessities". I don't buy food as I am sure the scholarship includes a meal plan. A full ride is a full ride in terms of what you and me had to pay the university he did not. We all know that the college experience is more than athletics and education. Social life is a huge part of it and that costs money. Should the university pay for that too?

If that's the case the courts will make quick work of it, if it's not as clear he may have a point. I have no doubt he's not going to win a case on social life, but if the cost of summer school (for example) wasn't included he may have. Depends on the contract.

bcoach · Unread post by **bcoach** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:17 am

Maddog1956 wrote:
Kgfish wrote:
What do you mean performing a full time job for no pay? All that stuff that comes with a scholarship IS pay. The athletic grant is a simple contract between the player and school. An exchange for a free education for athletic performance. End of discussion. Nobody made these players take the offer. They chose to do so by their own free will.

As far as the income sharing stuff goes. Welcome to the real world baby! When a company makes a big profit should the employees be entitled to any of it? Did they not agree to do the job for an agreed upon amount of compensation? If the company falls on its face are the employees going to give back any of their compensation? Prob not. These players are thrilled when they get these opportunities. If they don't know upfront what they are getting in to somebody at that school isn't doing their job. Not to mention the investment made by the university before a player ever sets foot on campus. What about all the money spent building first class facilities for them to perfect and showcase their talents? Does that not count? It's stuff like this makes me think the NCAA should do away with all athletic scholarships and make them strictly academic grants. No tutors, training table, or those other perks athletes enjoy. And btw, If they don't maintain a certain GPA the grant is yanked. Wonder how much bitching they would do then.
That's my point, you implied that he got $80K education and the other benefits for $5k so he got a "fair trade". I'm just stating that he got a $80k education for $5k AND 5 years of work (a $50k -$100k value). It still may be a "fair trade" but it's not as one sided as you implied. As a matter of fact the college may be the one "making" out.

Sure they do, it started back with Henry Ford and is still in place with many good companies. Ask some of the first people that started with Apple, Microsoft, Facebook how many billions they got to share. In the sports world check out the NFL and see how much revenue sharing they have. Ask a Food Lion or Lowes employee, that's the real world, baby! About the only place that I know of that don't have revenue sharing is government. (A sole owner, shares all the revenue). You're always saying it's a dollars and cents issue, that they should cut the sports that don't bring in any money, that colleges can't afford to fund everything. I'm just saying should that hold true for players? Should they "cut" the colleges that can't fund them to the level they want to be funded? If it's just a money issue, it has to be one both way.

I don't know what his agreement was, but if it's clear cut (he got what he agreed to, the case won't see the light of day), if it isn't he has the right to be compensated.

I just wanted to make the comment that he didn't receive a $80k education for ONLY $5K. I find it funny how people put so little value on other peoples time and such great value on their own.

I am sorry but the vast majority of companies in this country do not revenue share. Now when it comes to collage athletes they are not employees in the first place. They come to play a game and are free to leave at any time. Some can get into the school when others can't. They can stay in when others can't. Most of us who are paying their way are getting sick and tired of the crybaby attitude this guy has. We owe players nothing at all. How is it that a guy plays a sport all through high school for the love of the game but then all of a sudden he hits collage and thinks it is such a burden on his life that he need to get paid?
I am beginning to think that academic scholarships are not such a good thing to begin with. I think if you can't get in as a student you don't get in. If you can qualify for an academic scholarship fine. If not then play for the love of the game. If you don't love the game enough to do that then quit. You will have all that extra time to study which is what collage is supposed to be for anyway.

HeffnerIV · Unread post by **HeffnerIV** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:30 am

I think KGFish and Maddog are both correct here. Some of the best companies do provide revenue sharing, but they're the best because they understand incentive. However, unless it's clearly drawn out in their employment agreement, the ownership owes them nothing more than their wage/salary. As a business owner, I'm always annoyed when I hear whining about a Christmas Bonus (for example) that was smaller than expected. It's the equivalent to complaining about a birthday gift.

Maddog1956 · Unread post by **Maddog1956** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:49 am

HeffnerIV wrote:I think KGFish and Maddog are both correct here. Some of the best companies do provide revenue sharing, but they're the best because they understand incentive. However, unless it's clearly drawn out in their employment agreement, the ownership owes them nothing more than their wage/salary. As a business owner, I'm always annoyed when I hear whining about a Christmas Bonus (for example) that was smaller than expected. It's the equivalent to complaining about a birthday gift.

I'm not a big fan of revenue sharing or paying college players, but I think we need to get off the concept that they are on "welfare" and owe us for supporting them. Yes in some case they get "a free ride", but like most adults know "nothing is free". I just wanted to bring that point up.

Unlike some others I understand that we're not paying for their college just out of the the "goodness of our hearts", they have something valuable that we are trading for. Going back to the original topic, either they paid him what was specified in the contract or they didn't, I don't know enough about the contract to say either way. But I don't think of it as a "we gave you a education so shut up" situation.

bcoach · Unread post by **bcoach** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Maddog1956 wrote:
HeffnerIV wrote:I think KGFish and Maddog are both correct here. Some of the best companies do provide revenue sharing, but they're the best because they understand incentive. However, unless it's clearly drawn out in their employment agreement, the ownership owes them nothing more than their wage/salary. As a business owner, I'm always annoyed when I hear whining about a Christmas Bonus (for example) that was smaller than expected. It's the equivalent to complaining about a birthday gift.
I'm not a big fan of revenue sharing or paying college players, but I think we need to get off the concept that they are on "welfare" and owe us for supporting them. Yes in some case they get "a free ride", but like most adults know "nothing is free". I just wanted to bring that point up.

Unlike some others I understand that we're not paying for their college just out of the the "goodness of our hearts", they have something valuable that we are trading for. Going back to the original topic, either they paid him what was specified in the contract or they didn't, I don't know enough about the contract to say either way. But I don't think of it as a "we gave you a education so shut up" situation.

You are correct. We did get a little off topic. They should give him what they contracted for and yes it was me who said for him to shut up. That was a little strong. I am just tired of this whole national conversation that we owe athletes more than what they are given. What they contribute to the university is recreation for students and alumni. Their scholarships carry more benefit to them than any other scholarship I am aware of. There are many who contribute to the university who get nothing at all. I used the example of trainers and there are many others. I believe that they should get what they contracted for but no more. Enough is given already.
I think it is sometimes forgotten that many students are not on daddy's dime. They have student loans and part of that money is athletic fees. That means those people will be paying for years so that the athlete who is on a free ride can play their sport. So I will not say shut up but maybe they could just back down and thank their fellow students.

Saint3333 · Unread post by **Saint3333** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:56 pm

HeffnerIV wrote:I think KGFish and Maddog are both correct here. Some of the best companies do provide revenue sharing, but they're the best because they understand incentive. However, unless it's clearly drawn out in their employment agreement, the ownership owes them nothing more than their wage/salary. As a business owner, I'm always annoyed when I hear whining about a Christmas Bonus (for example) that was smaller than expected. It's the equivalent to complaining about a birthday gift.

Did you give everyone a jelly of the month subscription again?

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