Some things that need saying

[Snwbrdro]

On the issue of poor officiating:

I am not one who habitually jumps on officials. Bad calls happen! However, Saturday's game was the worst I remember seeing...ever! The "fumble" call was so obviously bad that the Wofford fan in the row in front of me turned around and said with no hesitation "That was a bad call. Don't get me wrong...we're going to take it, but that was a bad call." In addition to that one there was an "out of bounds" call early in the game where Price (I think) caught one on the Northeast sideline at the 1 or 2 yardline. It was NOT out of bounds. That ended a possession and changed momentum. Also, the "unnecessary roughness" call late in the game that gave Wofford a fresh set of downs (would have been a punting situation...4th and very long) was rediculous. This was a running play in which the QB was executing a fake. Yes, he had handed off, but part of the play is that he was faking possession (that's part of the play) and it was not a pass...I believe he was still a legit target. Someone please help me out with that rule if I'm wrong.

OK...rant over. I can't honestly say that the officiating didn't change the outcome of this game....given that it resulted in 7 points. Without that 7, it's a three point game and we were in fieldgoal range at the end of the game. We'll never know what MIght have been. I do know that we had plenty of opportunities to put ths game away, and we just didn't do it. This one's in the books....let's move on.

GO APPS!!!

I totally agree!! Had that been the pitch man, no harm, no penalty, no complaints!!!

[Snwbrdro]

Re: Thoughts from the game
by Snwbrdro » October 21st, 2012, 7:14 am

It's drilled in their heads all week to hit their man in the backfield whether he has the ball or not and that is all they have seen all game is 4 different players running the ball, you can't penalize them for that. It wasn't late and was not on purpose. It was playing the play out. What if it had been faked and he did have the ball and our man quit on the play? That is exactly how you get burnt against them. What if the hit had been on the pitch man? No flag would have been thrown and everyone would have said good play. This play, good discipline.

Now the flip in the end one, completely stupid

[gaapp78]

Re: Thoughts from the game
by Snwbrdro » October 21st, 2012, 7:14 am

It's drilled in their heads all week to hit their man in the backfield whether he has the ball or not and that is all they have seen all game is 4 different players running the ball, you can't penalize them for that. It wasn't late and was not on purpose. It was playing the play out. What if it had been faked and he did have the ball and our man quit on the play? That is exactly how you get burnt against them. What if the hit had been on the pitch man? No flag would have been thrown and everyone would have said good play. This play, good discipline.

Now the flip in the end one, completely stupid

The referee interpreted differently. His feeling was that the App defender met the qb, could see he didnt have the ball, but he extended his arms to "push" the qb down. maybe if he just went straight at him and tackled him it wold have been different, but by reaching and extending he felt the app guy could tell the qb didnt have it. And in the day of protecting the qb, those calls happen. Even on an option qb

[Snwbrdro]

I understand that is what we all think on here but how do we know what the refs thoughts were at that moment, He could have just as easily missed the call because he is horrible.

[gaapp78]

I understand that is what we all think on here but how do we know what the refs thoughts were at that moment, He could have just as easily missed the call because he is horrible.

not saying i knew what he was thinking, but from my pt, the app guy extended his arm and pushed the qb down. Had he followed through with a form tackle, maybe its not called. Cant say the call was horrible, just unfortunate for App.

[AppGrad1]

I'm my opinion Jackson made a stupid play that put the official in a situation to make a call. He was hoping the official would bail him out. He didn't and the team suffered for his poor decision, same as the flip.
Never put yourself in a situation where you are looking for someone else to bail you out much less a so con ref...

[9Steelman]

Question: why is chest bumping with a teammate right in front of the other team's face apparently OK, but doing a flip 30 yards from the nearest defender walking off the field with their back to flip be a penalty? Don't understand why both are not OK or both should be penalties?

[gaapp78]

I'm my opinion Jackson made a stupid play that put the official in a situation to make a call. He was hoping the official would bail him out. He didn't and the team suffered for his poor decision, same as the flip.
Never put yourself in a situation where you are looking for someone else to bail you out much less a so con ref...

"Stupid play" is a strong word. He was going down and was trying to get rid of the ball to save a few yards. Maybe a "bad decision" is a better word. lol

[tigerp7147]

Defense wins football games.. period... While we have had unbelieveable talent in the past as well as currently although young, we have never been a shut down defense.. We have always relied on out scoring our opponents in a shoot out.. I believe we have used the term "bend don't break". If we are to lose to a team lets lose because they have overcome there weakness, but not because we could not defend their strength...

[ELCubano1]

As much as I am terribly disappointed with this year's team, I wanted to state a few facts that I believe a lot of MOUNTAINEER fans have seem to have forgotten.

1. We have lost the following starters or potential starters (or two deep players) due to academic ineligibilty, suspensions and injuries. Rizor, Morgan, Sawyer, Tanyi, Gainey, Dufort, Barnes, Blackmon, Middleton, and Bryant. Not to mention, that we have also had other players who have sustained injuries during the course of the season, which include Chisholm, Robinson, Walker, Lamm and Acey. And then the two game suspensions served by Price, Lott and Ware.

That's a total of 18 very talented players. Show me the FCS team that can go through this type of adversity and still be in the top 20 and still have a chance to go to the playoffs. I'm not making excuses, I'm simply stating facts.

2. With the exception of the Citadel game, this Mountaineer team has competed closely late in every game (including East Carolina) despite losing key players.

3. We have a team that has been ranked in the top 20 since October, 2005. Who in the FCS has done this?

4. Although, we have a lot of disgruntled fans, we are still averaging 27,760 fans per home game. Who in the FCS can say this?

I acknowledge that this year's version of ASU football may not be at the level we were during the NC years, but there is no reason for OUR fans to (1) threaten to no longer support OUR team, (2) not attend games or even worst (3) leave the game while our team is competing in a tight battle.

I live in the Miami area and I only usually get to watch 2 games live per year while making my annual trip to the Carolinas. However, every Saturday, I am either listening (via IMG) or watching a televised broadcast of our MOUNTAINEERS!!! Win or lose, they DESERVE our support!!!

If I can do this from Miami, surely our fans who live in the Carolinas can be much more supportive. I only wish I lived nearby to go to every game! That would be a dream!

Again, we have a talented team, but they are young, inexperienced and missing a lot of key players. This team needs your support more today than they ever have! IT'S SO GREAT TO BE A MOUNTAINEER!!! AND I'M SO PROUD TO BE A LIFETIME MOUNTAINEER!!!

[appbio91]

I've watched the replay of the fumble several times and while the refs explanation that it came loose before his arm moved forward was obviously wrong, the net result was accurate. JJ had clear control control of the ball but did not throw it forward. It was a lateral, which makes it a live ball and a touchdown for Wofford. More concerning is that just like the Mellette TD against Elon, we gave up and watched him run it in when no whistle was blown. That has to change.

Thanks for posting. I need to go back and see if the "spike" was lateral as you say. I was convinced from my East side vantage point that it was forward. If it was lateral then you are correct - right call. But...I really doubt those bone heads could have made that call real time. I think they thought it was a fumble.

[appstate77]

I've watched the replay of the fumble several times and while the refs explanation that it came loose before his arm moved forward was obviously wrong, the net result was accurate. JJ had clear control control of the ball but did not throw it forward. It was a lateral, which makes it a live ball and a touchdown for Wofford. More concerning is that just like the Mellette TD against Elon, we gave up and watched him run it in when no whistle was blown. That has to change.

In his post game interview JM said he questioned the official on the "fumble". Moore said the official interpreted it as JJs arm did not come forward and therefore it was ruled a fumble...not a lateral.

[biggie]

It clearly went forward and looked to be both thrown and landed on the 40 yd line to me, making it incomplete.

But not sure we would have won if we had scored on that drive.

[appstate77]

What was the deal with the Wofford players taunting our fans at the end of the game? Thought that was pretty cowardly. I've seen several teams do this over the years but didn't expect it from Wofford.

A Wofford friend of mine emailed their AD about this and was assured that Coach Ayers would address this issue aggressively....I can see some extra laps or "suicides" run at the end of their practice today.

[JCline0429]

As much as I am terribly disappointed with this year's team, I wanted to state a few facts that I believe a lot of MOUNTAINEER fans have seem to have forgotten.

1. We have lost the following starters or potential starters (or two deep players) due to academic ineligibilty, suspensions and injuries. Rizor, Morgan, Sawyer, Tanyi, Gainey, Dufort, Barnes, Blackmon, Middleton, and Bryant. Not to mention, that we have also had other players who have sustained injuries during the course of the season, which include Chisholm, Robinson, Walker, Lamm and Acey. And then the two game suspensions served by Price, Lott and Ware.

That's a total of 18 very talented players. Show me the FCS team that can go through this type of adversity and still be in the top 20 and still have a chance to go to the playoffs. I'm not making excuses, I'm simply stating facts.

2. With the exception of the Citadel game, this Mountaineer team has competed closely late in every game (including East Carolina) despite losing key players.

3. We have a team that has been ranked in the top 20 since October, 2005. Who in the FCS has done this?

4. Although, we have a lot of disgruntled fans, we are still averaging 27,760 fans per home game. Who in the FCS can say this?

I acknowledge that this year's version of ASU football may not be at the level we were during the NC years, but there is no reason for OUR fans to (1) threaten to no longer support OUR team, (2) not attend games or even worst (3) leave the game while our team is competing in a tight battle.

I live in the Miami area and I only usually get to watch 2 games live per year while making my annual trip to the Carolinas. However, every Saturday, I am either listening (via IMG) or watching a televised broadcast of our MOUNTAINEERS!!! Win or lose, they DESERVE our support!!!

If I can do this from Miami, surely our fans who live in the Carolinas can be much more supportive. I only wish I lived nearby to go to every game! That would be a dream!

Again, we have a talented team, but they are young, inexperienced and missing a lot of key players. This team needs your support more today than they ever have! IT'S SO GREAT TO BE A MOUNTAINEER!!! AND I'M SO PROUD TO BE A LIFETIME MOUNTAINEER!!!

You made good points about the injuries and attrition. The fact that fans threaten to bail say more about themselves than they do the program. These are the same ones who would fall off the bandwagon if/ when we have tough times adjusting to FBS.

[asumike83]

It clearly went forward and looked to be both thrown and landed on the 40 yd line to me, making it incomplete.

But not sure we would have won if we had scored on that drive.

You may have already seen this on AGS but I disagree. I think the call was incorrectly labeled as a fumble but it looks to me like he let get go of the ball around the 40 1/2 yard line and it landed inside the 40. As he was being twisted down by the Wofford defender, he was turned around when the ball was released. Appears to be a backwards pass and a legit TD for Wofford.

For anyone that can bear to watch, it starts at 8:28.

[Appersrule]

It clearly went forward and looked to be both thrown and landed on the 40 yd line to me, making it incomplete.

But not sure we would have won if we had scored on that drive.

If it was thrown and landed on the 40, that would meet the definition of a lateral. For it to be a forward pass it must go forward. A lateral is anything, backward or parallel to the line it was thrown on.

[gaapp78]

My seat is about the 35 yard line, so got a pretty good look, my first instinct when I saw it was it was incomplte becaue his arm was going forward, then I immediately thought to myself, he threw it right down the line so it was being called a lateral. But when the ref offered his explanatin he did say it was ruled a fumble, which was the wrong call. But as we discussed earlier, "wrong call, correct result (wofford td)"

[Appersrule]

The ref got it right, for the wrong reasons. The refs explanation was wrong, and what he thought he saw was wrong. However, the actual call of a lateral/fumble TD was correct.

[TractorApp]

Question: why is chest bumping with a teammate right in front of the other team's face apparently OK, but doing a flip 30 yards from the nearest defender walking off the field with their back to flip be a penalty? Don't understand why both are not OK or both should be penalties?

My third year out of officiating, but I'm pretty sure nothing has changed on this. You get a Unsportsmanlike penalty for being disrespectful of an official, drawing attention to yourself, i.e touchdown celebrations where you are not celebrating with a teammate, or taunting an opponent. Short celebrations with teammates are ok unless they are seen as taunting opponents or are excessive/vulgar, etc.