The Carolina Way (Cont'd)

[ASUMountaineer]

I've also noticed that several of our closet-Heel posters have been silent in this thread, not defending their true love with such vigor as in the past.

[DaphneUrquhart]

I've also noticed that several of our closet-Heel posters have been silent in this thread, not defending their true love with such vigor as in the past.

I hope you're not referring to me as one of those "closet-Heel posters". I've never made any bones about being a Carolina alum while being a part of the Appalachian family. You'll also notice that I don't jump to the defense of the indefensible whether that be at my true alma mater or my adopted one.

It's important to remember when one points a finger at someone else, there are always three fingers pointing back. I pray App's athletic department is as clean as we all think it is.

[WVAPPeer]

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — NCAA President Mark Emmert says the findings of a report into alleged academic fraud at the University of North Carolina are "deeply troubling" and "absolutely disturbing."

The 20-minute interview with The Associated Press marked the first time he has commented publicly since Kenneth Wainstein's report was released last Wednesday.

[WER4ASU]

This whole thing stinks. As a native North Carolinian I have been FORCE-FED Carolina/ACC all of my life. I pray that the Almighty forgives me for the hate I have for them. I may be one of only a few that admit why they hate the tar-holes. Let's face it they get all the money, they get all the programs, they get all the publicity and they, as a result of all that, have all the tradition. I have no doubt that ASU will be adversely affected by this whole mess. So you whine and cheese powder-puff blue sheep worshiping losers take your medicine and go back to pulling for the bottom of someones' foot!

[Gonzo]

This whole thing stinks. As a native North Carolinian I have been FORCE-FEED Carolina/ACC all of my life. I pray that the Almighty forgives me for the hate I have for them. I may be one of only a few that admit why they hate the tar-holes. Let's face it they get all the money, they get all the programs, they get all the publicity and they, as a result of all that, have all the tradition. I have no doubt that ASU will be adversely affected by this whole mess. So you whine and cheese powder-puff blue sheep worshiping losers take your medicine and go back to pulling for the bottom of someones' foot!

[ASUMountaineer]

I've also noticed that several of our closet-Heel posters have been silent in this thread, not defending their true love with such vigor as in the past.

I hope you're not referring to me as one of those "closet-Heel posters". I've never made any bones about being a Carolina alum while being a part of the Appalachian family. You'll also notice that I don't jump to the defense of the indefensible whether that be at my true alma mater or my adopted one.

It's important to remember when one points a finger at someone else, there are always three fingers pointing back. I pray App's athletic department is as clean as we all think it is.

Then your hope is confirmed. I'm well aware of your background, and no the post was not directed at you. You'll also notice that I wasn't pointing fingers, but simply having a little fun at UNC's expense on the MMB.

I trust you missed the smiley face ( ) at the end of the post indicating it was in jest. If not, then I will just say that I am surprised by your response. I pray that UNC's deflection of blame does not cause undue harm on the other UNC System schools--especially App State.

[T-Dog]

I believe the punishments should be unique because this is a unique situation. I don't believe in directly punishing the people there that weren't a part of this, but no matter what, they'll get the fallout.

-Show-cause (banned from NCAA contact) for minimum five years for everyone involved. I mean EVERYONE. Those involved longer than five years are banned as long as they were a part of the program. Including Roy and Swofford.

-Two year postseason ban for the entire athletics department. Yes it's punishing the players who weren't a part of it, but the message had to be sent.

-Deem all persons who took AFAM classes ineligible and take down all banners from teams with ineligible players.

-Fines from the NCAA, SACS & the state of North Carolina in the eight figures.

-Under SACS, the max probationary period for an institution is two years. That's not good enough. I say SACS takes away membership from UNC-Chapel Hill and have them start over for accreditation. Have every part of the school looked over with a fine-tooth comb for two years.

-No UNC-Chapel Hill representatives/grads/boosters on the BOG for five years.

-Any UNC BOT member elected before 2012 must resign.

[DaphneUrquhart]

I've also noticed that several of our closet-Heel posters have been silent in this thread, not defending their true love with such vigor as in the past.

I hope you're not referring to me as one of those "closet-Heel posters". I've never made any bones about being a Carolina alum while being a part of the Appalachian family. You'll also notice that I don't jump to the defense of the indefensible whether that be at my true alma mater or my adopted one.

It's important to remember when one points a finger at someone else, there are always three fingers pointing back. I pray App's athletic department is as clean as we all think it is.

Then your hope is confirmed. I'm well aware of your background, and no the post was not directed at you. You'll also notice that I wasn't pointing fingers, but simply having a little fun at UNC's expense on the MMB.

I trust you missed the smiley face ( ) at the end of the post indicating it was in jest. If not, then I will just say that I am surprised by your response. I pray that UNC's deflection of blame does not cause undue harm on the other UNC System schools--especially App State.

Thanks. The nerves are a bit raw when it comes to Carolina at the moment. The finger pointing analogy wasn't directed at you so much as it was a general comment on human nature.

I'm disappointed in my alma mater and something beyond angry that they've worked so hard to paint so many Carolina degrees with a tainted brush - even those from well before the academic fiasco at hand. Of course, I think of majors like "Women's Studies" at other system schools and wonder what those are about, too.

There was a time that I was proud of being a Carolina grad because I had earned my way into and through a fine university. Now is not that time. Perhaps that pride will return one day. Until then, App will get the small donation I used to send to Chapel Hill each year along with the donations App gets every year.

See you in Boone!

[newtoasu]

The drum beat to revoke their accreditation has started. Brian Rosenberg, the President of Macalester College, has written an op-ed in the Chronicle of Higher Education calling for UNC-CH to lose its accreditation over the academic fraud scandal. I do not think this will be lthe last call for such a drastic measure. As has been mentioned in previous posts the loss of SACS accreditation is much bigger than NCAA punishment. The loss of SACS accreditation would also carry the loss of any students receiving federal financial aid (read loans) and lots of other problems. Of course, we will have to wait and see if the NCAA chooses to do anything about this but my guess is that they will say that this is between UNC-CH and SACS and stay out of punishing them.

In my opinion this is the money paragraph in the editorial:

This is an issue of institutional integrity, a violation of the most basic assumption upon which the credibility of any college or university is based: that the grades and credits represented on the transcripts of its students are an accurate reflection of the work actually done. Absent this assurance, a transcript—a degree—from the institution has lost its meaning.

Here is a link to the full op-ed:

http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation ... ign=buffer

[WVAPPeer]

Ol' Roy and now Ol' Bubba just don't see it - if there was ever a more accurate use of "can't see the forest for the trees", I'm not sure what it would be

"CHAPEL HILL — NCAA President Mark Emmert said this week that the conclusions of the Wainstein investigation at North Carolina were “deeply troubling.” Days earlier, Bubba Cunningham, the UNC athletics director, offered a softer stance.

Cunningham in an interview Friday on 99.9 The Fan said a bit of time had helped add some perspective – for him, at least – on the findings by Kenneth Wainstein, a former U.S. Justice Department official, which concluded that over a span of nearly 20 years, hundreds of athletes were directed to bogus paper classes, resulting in inflated grades, in the African and Afro-American Studies Department at UNC.

“It would be the equivalent of three student-athletes per team per year over that period of time,” Cunningham said, referencing the 18-year period in which athletes and nonathletes alike used bogus classes to boost their GPAs. “So as bad as it was, as long as it was, it’s really starting to sink in that there was maybe one, two, three classes for somebody – so that might be six or nine hours out of 120 that it takes to graduate. So it’s shocking, but as you have a little more time to look at it, it’s not quite as bad as I was thinking it was 48 hours ago.”

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/28/ ... rylink=cpy

[moehler]

wow, your University has committed perhaps the greatest academic fraud in the history of the NCAA, and your AD tries to rationalize it away on public radio, ya, that's going to go over real well with the NCAA, lets piss them off even more. I swear if I was his boss, I would immediately call him in my office, read him the riot act, and tell him his services are no longer required, idiot.

[moonshine]

“If those classes weren’t available, what would they have taken and what would the grade have been?” Cunningham said. “And that becomes a challenging question, in hindsight.”

Well Bubba, this is just a shot in the dark but if the faux classes were not available to the students they probably would've taken a real class that they actually had to attend and complete actual work that was graded (not by a secretary) on merit. As far as speculating on their grades, again I'll be a blind squirrel looking for a nut here but it would probably fall right in line with those 1.9 average GPA's detailed in the Wainstein Report.

[AppStateNews]

To preface, I don't think this should be excused at all and need to be punish severly.. I am just curious as to how this works with the NCAA..

Since these classes were technically registered as classes with the University, how can the NCAA do anything? I understand they weren't real classes, but how do they differ from independent studies where students never have to go to class (maybe some meetings with the professor occasionally) and they write papers?

I know these "papers" at UNC CHeat weren't really papers, but I was just curious to this. Are there standards with the NCAA that each class has to meet X amount of times or anything?

[tjpappy]

[quote="WVAPPeer"]Ol' Roy and now Ol' Bubba just don't see it - if there was ever a more accurate use of "can't see the forest for the trees", I'm not sure what it would be

"Cunningham in an interview Friday on 99.9 The Fan said a bit of time had helped add some perspective – for him, at least – on the findings by Kenneth Wainstein, a former U.S. Justice Department official, which concluded that over a span of nearly 20 years, hundreds of athletes were directed to bogus paper classes, resulting in inflated grades, in the African and Afro-American Studies Department at UNC.

“It would be the equivalent of three student-athletes per team per year over that period of time,” Cunningham said, referencing the 18-year period in which athletes and nonathletes alike used bogus classes to boost their GPAs. “So as bad as it was, as long as it was, it’s really starting to sink in that there was maybe one, two, three classes for somebody – so that might be six or nine hours out of 120 that it takes to graduate. So it’s shocking, but as you have a little more time to look at it, it’s not quite as bad as I was thinking it was 48 hours ago.”


I read that quote, too, and am still trying to figure out his math. If there are four terms a year (Fall, Spring, Summer I and Summer II) then three per term would be only 12 per year. If multiply that by 18 years, I only come up with 216. It is my understanding that around 1500 athletes were enrolled in these classes. That would be approximately 83 students a year for 18 years.

Regardless, he certainly seems to be minimizing the extent and the function that these classes served.

[manonabuffalo]

Watching the Tar Holes burn, should be a sense of pride for this state.

[appdaze]

Watching the Tar Holes burn, should be a sense of pride for this state.

Why? I don't take pride in it at all. While I may not pull for them in sports I certainly don't take pride in this scandal.

[Gonzo]

Pride isn't the right word, but we should take great pleasure in finally seeing the Holes get their just dessert.

This is an institution that controls tax money to the point that App and other UNC System schools are forced to cut programs and fire teachers while UNCCH doesn't see a dime disappear from their operating budget. Their nepotism has infested every major industry in this State, to those industry's detriment. Now we find out more and more about the fraud taking place in the biggest academic fraud scandal in history. And all of this, for as long as people have been paying attention, has been done under the guise of "The Carolina Way" -- "We're better than you, and we know it."

Every single student/alum of a public University in this State outside of Orange County should be happy as a clam.

[HeffnerIV]

Pride isn't the right word, but we should take great pleasure in finally seeing the Holes get their just dessert.

This is an institution that controls tax money to the point that App and other UNC System schools are forced to cut programs and fire teachers while UNCCH doesn't see a dime disappear from their operating budget. Their nepotism has infested every major industry in this State, to those industry's detriment. Now we find out more and more about the fraud taking place in the biggest academic fraud scandal in history. And all of this, for as long as people have been paying attention, has been done under the guise of "The Carolina Way" -- "We're better than you, and we know it."

Every single student/alum of a public University in this State outside of Orange County should be happy as a clam.

Hate to say it, but this is the exact reason that this situation is poetically just. Sure the Tar Heels hate Duke because of basketball, but they really hate them because they're not able to look down on them academically.

[AppinVA]

Pride isn't the right word, but we should take great pleasure in finally seeing the Holes get their just dessert.

This is an institution that controls tax money to the point that App and other UNC System schools are forced to cut programs and fire teachers while UNCCH doesn't see a dime disappear from their operating budget. Their nepotism has infested every major industry in this State, to those industry's detriment. Now we find out more and more about the fraud taking place in the biggest academic fraud scandal in history. And all of this, for as long as people have been paying attention, has been done under the guise of "The Carolina Way" -- "We're better than you, and we know it."

Every single student/alum of a public University in this State outside of Orange County should be happy as a clam.

Hate to say it, but this is the exact reason that this situation is poetically just. Sure the Tar Heels hate Duke because of basketball, but they really hate them because they're not able to look down on them academically.

Aaaaand now they can't look down on Ashemore Business College.

[Appsolutely]

Pride isn't the right word, but we should take great pleasure in finally seeing the Holes get their just dessert.

This is an institution that controls tax money to the point that App and other UNC System schools are forced to cut programs and fire teachers while UNCCH doesn't see a dime disappear from their operating budget. Their nepotism has infested every major industry in this State, to those industry's detriment. Now we find out more and more about the fraud taking place in the biggest academic fraud scandal in history. And all of this, for as long as people have been paying attention, has been done under the guise of "The Carolina Way" -- "We're better than you, and we know it."

Every single student/alum of a public University in this State outside of Orange County should be happy as a clam.

Hate to say it, but this is the exact reason that this situation is poetically just. Sure the Tar Heels hate Duke because of basketball, but they really hate them because they're not able to look down on them academically.

Aaaaand now they can't look down on Ashemore Business College.

That's right. They can't even look down on the ABC Fightin' Stenographers.