How do teams like us afford?

[bigdaddyg]

How do mid level eastcoast teams like App afford to go to bowls like the Hawaii Bowl or the Popeye's Bahamas Bowl? I just can't imagine that either or those bowls would have many fans and the airfare and extra costs would be tremendous. Do schools ever turn down certain bowls due to cost or do they just suck it up and eat the cost? We talk about not being able to afford premium coaching salaries. Aren't most of these smaller bowls losing propositions? I would think that the Belk Bowl would be ideal but with conference tie-ins we will have to be resigned to lesser appealing and undoubtably costlier games. Not being a Suzy Downer but money is the determining factor in everything. Some folks use the recruiting aspect as an argument to play in certain bowls. Even with that is there an advantage for App to eat the expense for either of the bowls mentioned or for one in California or other points far west?

[rbarthle17]

It is a well-known fact that most teams lose money in bowl games across-the-board. Especially when you get into the non power conferences

[bigdaddyg]

It appears that a huge loss for schools (even bigger schools in bigger bowls) comes as a result of being unable to sell ticket allotments. This would have to be a huge concern for App. I read that Va Tech took big losses for three Orange Bowl appearances over the course of a few years ago and most of the loss was due to being unable to sell tickets. Allotments can be in the 15K range with ticket prices of $100 or more. Even if App travels 3K in fans that deficit can be staggering. Some conferences help defray cost and after each takes a piece of the pie from the participating teams' share there isn't much left to cover expenses. With the Sunbelt possibly only getting 2-3 bowl bids there won't be much money being brought back to the conference. It is no wonder that winning schools look to make the jump to greener pastures. It comes to down to economics. The cost of travel and potential for losses from bowl game rewards is potentially tremendous. A team like Vanderbilt has it made. They never need to have any success in football. They probably fund their sports programs off of their share of BCS bowl game proceeds.

[AppSt94]

I don't think the problem is just with the smaller bowls. IIRC, Northern Illinois lost a ton of money playing in the Orange Bowl a few years back. I think I recall the MAC had to step in and help with the costs.

[AppGrad78]

The bowls are rigged so that the organizers take almost none of the risks but reap nearly all of the rewards. The participating schools and their fans are on the hook for the shortfall, which these days is almost certain. How this system flourishes is beyond me. The only explanation I see is that a lot of people are getting a lot of money from under the table.

[Cincy App]

The primary reason that schools lose money on their participation in the bowl game is a result of how many college employees that the school decides to send to the bowl game (and pay their expenses). Flights, hotels, meals, etc. get expensive for multiple people who don't "need" to go.

My understanding is that schools do eventually benefit from the collective bowl games which its conference participates in. Aren't financial guarantees paid directly to the conferences involved which are, in part, allocated to conference members? Of course, a conference member may benefit more by having its conference mates play bowl games while they stay home and collect an allocation check.

[JTApps1]

We lost money most years in the playoffs as well including some of the NC years. While the actual game may cost you money the success that comes with it pays off latter.

[appst89]

The huge losses incurred in recent years have come because the NCAA changed the payout rules. It used to be that the payout had to be in cash. Now, that is not the case and part of the payout to the teams is in tickets. Travel also contributes to the losses as most bowl games have a required number of rooms the teams must pay for and for a minimum number of nights, whether they need them all or not. The last three times Virginia Tech played in the Orange Bowl, they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on each trip and that was after the ACC stepped in and purcahsed all the tickets they were required to buy but couldn't sell. According to record obtained by USA Today, Virginia Tech would have lost $1.3 million in 2008, $2.2 million in 2009 and $1.6 million in 2011 if not for the ACC subsidy. With the subsidy, their losses were in the $400,000-$600,000 range. Virginia Tech was able to offset these losses with their share of the revenue the league received from the BCS deal. In fact, one of their administrators said they set aside several hundred thousand dollars every year to cover the losses they knew they would incur if they played in a BCS bowl game. According to USA Today 23 of the 46 public schools that played in BCS games from 2006-2011 lost money on their games even after subsidies provided by their conference. These safety nets generally were not available to teams not in BCS conferences.

According to records filed with the NCAA for 2010-2011, the average loss on a BCS game was $347,000 and the average loss on a non-BCS bowl was $140,000.

There is no doubt that the exposure from being in a bowl is valuable, but one has to wonder how much longer teams can continue to absorb losses of the magnitude that occur every year.

[NewApp]

The bowls are rigged so that the organizers take almost none of the risks but reap nearly all of the rewards. The participating schools and their fans are on the hook for the shortfall, which these days is almost certain. How this system flourishes is beyond me. The only explanation I see is that a lot of people are getting a lot of money from under the table.

BINGO! RP

[NewApp]

The huge losses incurred in recent years have come because the NCAA changed the payout rules. It used to be that the payout had to be in cash. Now, that is not the case and part of the payout to the teams is in tickets. Travel also contributes to the losses as most bowl games have a required number of rooms the teams must pay for and for a minimum number of nights, whether they need them all or not. The last three times Virginia Tech played in the Orange Bowl, they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on each trip and that was after the ACC stepped in and purcahsed all the tickets they were required to buy but couldn't sell. According to record obtained by USA Today, Virginia Tech would have lost $1.3 million in 2008, $2.2 million in 2009 and $1.6 million in 2011 if not for the ACC subsidy. With the subsidy, their losses were in the $400,000-$600,000 range. Virginia Tech was able to offset these losses with their share of the revenue the league received from the BCS deal. In fact, one of their administrators said they set aside several hundred thousand dollars every year to cover the losses they knew they would incur if they played in a BCS bowl game. According to USA Today 23 of the 46 public schools that played in BCS games from 2006-2011 lost money on their games even after subsidies provided by their conference. These safety nets generally were not available to teams not in BCS conferences.

According to records filed with the NCAA for 2010-2011, the average loss on a BCS game was $347,000 and the average loss on a non-BCS bowl was $140,000.

There is no doubt that the exposure from being in a bowl is valuable, but one has to wonder how much longer teams can continue to absorb losses of the magnitude that occur every year.

Which begs the question, "Why are so many MMB'ers so fascinated with the hope going "bowling?" Honest question.

[NewApp]

We lost money most years in the playoffs as well including some of the NC years. While the actual game may cost you money the success that comes with it pays off latter.

You may be right, but I doubt we lost north of 300K in any one given year. Part of our losses were in taking additional members of the entourage. Am I wrong?

[AppSt94]

We lost money most years in the playoffs as well including some of the NC years. While the actual game may cost you money the success that comes with it pays off latter.

You may be right, but I doubt we lost north of 300K in any one given year. Part of our losses were in taking additional members of the entourage. Am I wrong?

I would agree that how many people you take on the school's dime may affect some of that money. Has to your question in your previous post about why the fascination of bowling. The exposure is worth it and bowl games and more importantly, winning them helps the reputation when it comes to polls and getting that G5 New Years Day bowl.

[NewApp]

We lost money most years in the playoffs as well including some of the NC years. While the actual game may cost you money the success that comes with it pays off latter.

You may be right, but I doubt we lost north of 300K in any one given year. Part of our losses were in taking additional members of the entourage. Am I wrong?

I would agree that how many people you take on the school's dime may affect some of that money. Has to your question in your previous post about why the fascination of bowling. The exposure is worth it and bowl games and more importantly, winning them helps the reputation when it comes to polls and getting that G5 New Years Day bowl.

Possibly true, but I doubt proportionately it would be valid, but then again, I haven't followed bowls since the days when there were only the Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, Sugar Bowl, Cotton Bowl, Liberty Bowl and a couple others. Certainly no spark plug bowls and dotcom bowls. . To each his own.

[Yosef10]

The huge losses incurred in recent years have come because the NCAA changed the payout rules. It used to be that the payout had to be in cash. Now, that is not the case and part of the payout to the teams is in tickets. Travel also contributes to the losses as most bowl games have a required number of rooms the teams must pay for and for a minimum number of nights, whether they need them all or not. The last three times Virginia Tech played in the Orange Bowl, they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on each trip and that was after the ACC stepped in and purcahsed all the tickets they were required to buy but couldn't sell. According to record obtained by USA Today, Virginia Tech would have lost $1.3 million in 2008, $2.2 million in 2009 and $1.6 million in 2011 if not for the ACC subsidy. With the subsidy, their losses were in the $400,000-$600,000 range. Virginia Tech was able to offset these losses with their share of the revenue the league received from the BCS deal. In fact, one of their administrators said they set aside several hundred thousand dollars every year to cover the losses they knew they would incur if they played in a BCS bowl game. According to USA Today 23 of the 46 public schools that played in BCS games from 2006-2011 lost money on their games even after subsidies provided by their conference. These safety nets generally were not available to teams not in BCS conferences.

According to records filed with the NCAA for 2010-2011, the average loss on a BCS game was $347,000 and the average loss on a non-BCS bowl was $140,000.

There is no doubt that the exposure from being in a bowl is valuable, but one has to wonder how much longer teams can continue to absorb losses of the magnitude that occur every year.

Which begs the question, "Why are so many MMB'ers so fascinated with the hope going "bowling?" Honest question.

Have you ever been to a bowl game? No? Oh ok. Well I have, 2 actually.. A bowl game isn't just a game, the game is the ending of the party. For the day or 2 leading up to the game there are many events going on in the town related to the bowl game. It's very much fun. I've been to a playoff game and I've been to the bowl games, give me the bowl game every time.

[AppDawg]

The huge losses incurred in recent years have come because the NCAA changed the payout rules. It used to be that the payout had to be in cash. Now, that is not the case and part of the payout to the teams is in tickets. Travel also contributes to the losses as most bowl games have a required number of rooms the teams must pay for and for a minimum number of nights, whether they need them all or not. The last three times Virginia Tech played in the Orange Bowl, they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on each trip and that was after the ACC stepped in and purcahsed all the tickets they were required to buy but couldn't sell. According to record obtained by USA Today, Virginia Tech would have lost $1.3 million in 2008, $2.2 million in 2009 and $1.6 million in 2011 if not for the ACC subsidy. With the subsidy, their losses were in the $400,000-$600,000 range. Virginia Tech was able to offset these losses with their share of the revenue the league received from the BCS deal. In fact, one of their administrators said they set aside several hundred thousand dollars every year to cover the losses they knew they would incur if they played in a BCS bowl game. According to USA Today 23 of the 46 public schools that played in BCS games from 2006-2011 lost money on their games even after subsidies provided by their conference. These safety nets generally were not available to teams not in BCS conferences.

According to records filed with the NCAA for 2010-2011, the average loss on a BCS game was $347,000 and the average loss on a non-BCS bowl was $140,000.

There is no doubt that the exposure from being in a bowl is valuable, but one has to wonder how much longer teams can continue to absorb losses of the magnitude that occur every year.

Yet while univesities are losing money, the bowl games themselves are set up as non-profit entities and pay ZERO corporate taxes. Such a freakin' scam.

[Yosef10]

The huge losses incurred in recent years have come because the NCAA changed the payout rules. It used to be that the payout had to be in cash. Now, that is not the case and part of the payout to the teams is in tickets. Travel also contributes to the losses as most bowl games have a required number of rooms the teams must pay for and for a minimum number of nights, whether they need them all or not. The last three times Virginia Tech played in the Orange Bowl, they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on each trip and that was after the ACC stepped in and purcahsed all the tickets they were required to buy but couldn't sell. According to record obtained by USA Today, Virginia Tech would have lost $1.3 million in 2008, $2.2 million in 2009 and $1.6 million in 2011 if not for the ACC subsidy. With the subsidy, their losses were in the $400,000-$600,000 range. Virginia Tech was able to offset these losses with their share of the revenue the league received from the BCS deal. In fact, one of their administrators said they set aside several hundred thousand dollars every year to cover the losses they knew they would incur if they played in a BCS bowl game. According to USA Today 23 of the 46 public schools that played in BCS games from 2006-2011 lost money on their games even after subsidies provided by their conference. These safety nets generally were not available to teams not in BCS conferences.

According to records filed with the NCAA for 2010-2011, the average loss on a BCS game was $347,000 and the average loss on a non-BCS bowl was $140,000.

There is no doubt that the exposure from being in a bowl is valuable, but one has to wonder how much longer teams can continue to absorb losses of the magnitude that occur every year.

Yet while univesities are losing money, the bowl games themselves are set up as non-profit entities and pay ZERO corporate taxes. Such a freakin' scam.

But, agreed.

[NewApp]

The huge losses incurred in recent years have come because the NCAA changed the payout rules. It used to be that the payout had to be in cash. Now, that is not the case and part of the payout to the teams is in tickets. Travel also contributes to the losses as most bowl games have a required number of rooms the teams must pay for and for a minimum number of nights, whether they need them all or not. The last three times Virginia Tech played in the Orange Bowl, they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on each trip and that was after the ACC stepped in and purcahsed all the tickets they were required to buy but couldn't sell. According to record obtained by USA Today, Virginia Tech would have lost $1.3 million in 2008, $2.2 million in 2009 and $1.6 million in 2011 if not for the ACC subsidy. With the subsidy, their losses were in the $400,000-$600,000 range. Virginia Tech was able to offset these losses with their share of the revenue the league received from the BCS deal. In fact, one of their administrators said they set aside several hundred thousand dollars every year to cover the losses they knew they would incur if they played in a BCS bowl game. According to USA Today 23 of the 46 public schools that played in BCS games from 2006-2011 lost money on their games even after subsidies provided by their conference. These safety nets generally were not available to teams not in BCS conferences.

According to records filed with the NCAA for 2010-2011, the average loss on a BCS game was $347,000 and the average loss on a non-BCS bowl was $140,000.

There is no doubt that the exposure from being in a bowl is valuable, but one has to wonder how much longer teams can continue to absorb losses of the magnitude that occur every year.

Which begs the question, "Why are so many MMB'ers so fascinated with the hope going "bowling?" Honest question.

Have you ever been to a bowl game? No? Oh ok. Well I have, 2 actually.. A bowl game isn't just a game, the game is the ending of the party. For the day or 2 leading up to the game there are many events going on in the town related to the bowl game. It's very much fun. I've been to a playoff game and I've been to the bowl games, give me the bowl game every time.

Yes I have been to bowl games..but they were not spark plug bowls. Two Peach Bowls. Give me the wins in the three National Championship game any day.

[Yosef10]

The huge losses incurred in recent years have come because the NCAA changed the payout rules. It used to be that the payout had to be in cash. Now, that is not the case and part of the payout to the teams is in tickets. Travel also contributes to the losses as most bowl games have a required number of rooms the teams must pay for and for a minimum number of nights, whether they need them all or not. The last three times Virginia Tech played in the Orange Bowl, they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on each trip and that was after the ACC stepped in and purcahsed all the tickets they were required to buy but couldn't sell. According to record obtained by USA Today, Virginia Tech would have lost $1.3 million in 2008, $2.2 million in 2009 and $1.6 million in 2011 if not for the ACC subsidy. With the subsidy, their losses were in the $400,000-$600,000 range. Virginia Tech was able to offset these losses with their share of the revenue the league received from the BCS deal. In fact, one of their administrators said they set aside several hundred thousand dollars every year to cover the losses they knew they would incur if they played in a BCS bowl game. According to USA Today 23 of the 46 public schools that played in BCS games from 2006-2011 lost money on their games even after subsidies provided by their conference. These safety nets generally were not available to teams not in BCS conferences.

According to records filed with the NCAA for 2010-2011, the average loss on a BCS game was $347,000 and the average loss on a non-BCS bowl was $140,000.

There is no doubt that the exposure from being in a bowl is valuable, but one has to wonder how much longer teams can continue to absorb losses of the magnitude that occur every year.

Which begs the question, "Why are so many MMB'ers so fascinated with the hope going "bowling?" Honest question.

Have you ever been to a bowl game? No? Oh ok. Well I have, 2 actually.. A bowl game isn't just a game, the game is the ending of the party. For the day or 2 leading up to the game there are many events going on in the town related to the bowl game. It's very much fun. I've been to a playoff game and I've been to the bowl games, give me the bowl game every time.

Yes I have been to bowl games..but they were not spark plug bowls. Two Peach Bowls. Give me the wins in the three National Championship game any day.

It happened 3 times in what 60 years of football at app? And we had the greatest fcs player ever. I'll take a bowl over a loss to Illinois state (who?) . Actually went to the New Orleans bowl in 2012 and it was one of the most fun 4 days I've had. St. Petersburg was a lot of fun as well. Either way the teams in the spark plug bowl are better than any team you'll see in the fcs outside of NDSU.

[Rekdiver]

Time to change the formula and guarantee Bowl participants enough money to make the trip and re assume the ticket selling responsibility.

[WVAPPeer]

Take UNC or NCS for that matter - who nationwide will have any interest in seeing these 2 very mediocre teams play in a bowl??? - But if the Belk Bowl can get one of them ... ... ... ??? As someone mentioned previously about UL-L , proximity to the Bowl Site has to be taken into consideration for the lesser bowls ---