T-Dog Supplement blog post

[firemoose]

Despite the inappropriately written front page article (if you have questions or concerns then ask them in a professional way. No need for the snide remarks), here are some more testing pics using the tendo units. And for T-Dog, Mike attached a note to you saying "If there is anything I can clear up he can contact me directly"

[boonetown1]

Interesting article on NCAA website regarding supplements and ways athletes use them......."Athletes should be encouraged to rely on products that are third-party verified by credible companies". At least our university is going through a "credible" company.
http://www.ncaa.org/health-and-safety/s ... e-athletes


Saying all this.....I would be interested to the process Europa follows to ensure all additives are "safe" and eligible for use in NCAA.

Also, whoever wrote this article raises some good points; but please were not the only university investing in this. Coach mike should also credit the team and coaches a little more as well.......

[firemoose]

Interesting article on NCAA website regarding supplements and ways athletes use them......."Athletes should be encouraged to rely on products that are third-party verified by credible companies". At least our university is going through a "credible" company.
http://www.ncaa.org/health-and-safety/s ... e-athletes


Saying all this.....I would be interested to the process Europa follows to ensure all additives are "safe" and eligible for use in NCAA.

Also, whoever wrote this article raises some good points; but please were not the only university investing in this. Coach mike should also credit the team and coaches a little more as well.......

It's not the questions themselves. It was the way the article was written. You can ask legitimate questions all day long but you should do them in a professional way. And he could have gotten questions answered by Mike and the HES dept if he wanted. As far as testing, this is the kind of research every exercise science department across the world does as the research part of their field. They not only test exercise programs (like Crossfit) and S & C programs for their effectiveness but they also test supplements to see if they will do what they claim and if they are compliant. It's their jobs and they are the professionals. The NSCA (National Strength and Conditioning Association) just had their annual international conference. At least a 1/3 of the vendors are supplement people. Why are they there? Because EVERY program has to supplement. Especially football. You can't recover from all the lifting and effort you expend in playing football, or any competitive sport for that matter, from food alone or you would weight 1,000 lbs and take weeks to completely recover. If you want answers then ask questions from the experts in the field.


"Midway through the season last year, we started a new supplement and went on a six-game winning-streak. Did that have something to do with it? Absolutely, I think so. Did the guys start believing in themselves and the coaches come up with better schemes? Absolutely, but the (supplement) ended up being our secret weapon. The kids love it and they don’t go anywhere without taking it. And I would’ve never known about it, Eric finds what’s working.”

And for Mike not giving the coaches enough credit, he did, but he's the strength coach and he saw and continues to see the results in the weight room and on the field. Nothing in that quote concerning the supplements having "something to do with it" and being a "secret weapon" took away from our players and coaches efforts but the article was about nutrition and supplements. Mike and his staff and the coaches know better than anyone on this or any message board the changes that we made on and off the field and what effect they had.

Again, nothing wrong with questions and concerns expressed in the article. All are valid. But at least try and ask them in a professional way and at least talk to people who know what they are talking about instead of just throwing up something based on one article written by someone else and no research on your part.

[boonetown1]

"But at least try and ask them in a professional way and at least talk to people who know what they are talking about instead of just throwing up something based on one article written by someone else and no research on your part."

Come on man, I didn't write the article, nor do I agree with it. I was just writing an unbiased response and throwing in a couple of questions to ignite conversation (this is a message board, built for that very intent). I believe I did in fact respond in a semi-professional way and did prior research which led me to the NCAA article.

Just for the record i fully believe in the coach and think the article was written with little to no research as well. Just do not go throwing around accusations solely built on frustration.....calm down

[firemoose]

"But at least try and ask them in a professional way and at least talk to people who know what they are talking about instead of just throwing up something based on one article written by someone else and no research on your part."

Come on man, I didn't write the article, nor do I agree with it. I was just writing an unbiased response and throwing in a couple of questions to ignite conversation (this is a message board, built for that very intent). I believe I did in fact respond in a semi-professional way and did prior research which led me to the NCAA article.

Just for the record i fully believe in the coach and think the article was written with little to no research as well. Just do not go throwing around accusations solely built on frustration.....calm down

I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the article and it's author. I updated the post to reflect the misunderstanding.

[T-Dog]

I don't take back what I wrote. I knew what I was doing and I believe that we need more information on this AppFuel before it's given out to all 20 sports. They can use their platform at appstatesports.com to release that information to the public and if it alleviates my fears, I'll write as such.

[firemoose]

I don't take back what I wrote. I knew what I was doing and I believe that we need more information on this AppFuel before it's given out to all 20 sports. They can use their platform at appstatesports.com to release that information to the public and if it alleviates my fears, I'll write as such.

Once again it's not the questions and fears, it's the way you presented them. You could have stated them in a professional way. You chose not to. And you had every opportunity to speak to someone in the HES department to get an unbiased view from someone outside of and who does not answer to the athletics department. Professors with PhD's who research and teach every day about these subjects. The article was released on 6/15. We talked about it the same day. I said you could speak to someone in the CHS to find out about the product and what testing is done. You never did.

Last I looked the banner said Yosef's Cabin, not T-Dog's Cabin. But by placing the article on the front page now the only place people who may have the same issues but would have asked differently or those that might even disagree with you can respond is in the threads. If you had posted it as a new thread on the board I would have had no problem with it at all. Then we could have debated it as usual and people could have added articles and information like boonetown did. But the article is front and center and appears to all those who do not enter directly onto the MMB or those that do not know how this board works that the article represents the views of Yosef's Cabin.

[APPARJ]

I don't take back what I wrote. I knew what I was doing and I believe that we need more information on this AppFuel before it's given out to all 20 sports. They can use their platform at appstatesports.com to release that information to the public and if it alleviates my fears, I'll write as such.

Once again it's not the questions and fears, it's the way you presented them. You could have stated them in a professional way. You chose not to. And you had every opportunity to speak to someone in the HES department to get an unbiased view from someone outside of and who does not answer to the athletics department. Professors with PhD's who research and teach every day about these subjects. The article was released on 6/15. We talked about it the same day. I said you could speak to someone in the CHS to find out about the product and what testing is done. You never did.

Last I looked the banner said Yosef's Cabin, not T-Dog's Cabin. But by placing the article on the front page now the only place people who may have the same issues but would have asked differently or those that might even disagree with you can respond is in the threads. The article is front and center and appears to all those who do not enter directly onto the MMB or those that do not know how this board works that the article represents the views of Yosef's Cabin.

Amen, Moose.

TDog - how many phone calls did you make or emails did you send to get to the bottom of your concern before addressing it in that article? If you found something suspicious that wasn't disclosed that might be scandalous, then good job and fight the good fight.

But my guess is that you're just sitting behind a keyboard making speculations over an article.

I'm all about transparency and accountability but for a fan to make thinly veiled accusations on a very public forum based on one article without any real research is beyond lame.

So, assuming you've done no digging for answers, what utility does your article serve? What does it do except negatively impact the program?

If you're genuinely concerned, you have had every opportunity to find out for yourself without dragging the program through the mud of this petty fan-boy speculation but my guess is that you didn't.

How many people have the opportunity to read what you wrote and draw false narratives on their own?

Think about it, Coach Mike read what you wrote and has, through Firemoose, told you to call him to clarify these speculations. Are you going to do it?

Again, if you've called HES, Coach Mike and others to get to the bottom of this and found more stuff or were refused answers, you have my support to press on.

But if you did nothing and just wrote that piece, take it down.

[T-Dog]

I'm not a professional, I'm a blogger. I don't earn a cent from writing. I feel that I don't have to get opposing sides to stories or keep opinion out of my writings.

I felt like with this one, the other side had already been presented 3,000 words long.

And saying everything I write is indicative of how this site operates to those who don't go to the message boards? That's basically saying "don't be negative/don't write something I don't agree with". I write positive and negative articles based on how I feel. My opinion is now law and it's okay to disagree with me. Lord knows that happened a lot during baseball season.

I could be wrong in my fears about the supplement program. As a fan I want to be wrong. But I feel like questions should be asked.

Anyone can write blogs on the front page if they ask. It's always been that way. I have zero problems with it.

I know I write my blogs in a certain style that not everyone likes. I don't write like I'm writing a story for a newspaper because then I'd just be doing a poor-man's version of what Bowman, Behr and Wilkerson does.

[APPARJ]

I'm not a professional, I'm a blogger. I don't earn a cent from writing. I feel that I don't have to get opposing sides to stories or keep opinion out of my writings.

I felt like with this one, the other side had already been presented 3,000 words long.

And saying everything I write is indicative of how this site operates to those who don't go to the message boards? That's basically saying "don't be negative/don't write something I don't agree with". I write positive and negative articles based on how I feel. My opinion is now law and it's okay to disagree with me. Lord knows that happened a lot during baseball season.

I could be wrong in my fears about the supplement program. As a fan I want to be wrong. But I feel like questions should be asked.

Anyone can write blogs on the front page if they ask. It's always been that way. I have zero problems with it.

I know I write my blogs in a certain style that not everyone likes. I don't write like I'm writing a story for a newspaper because then I'd just be doing a poor-man's version of what Bowman, Behr and Wilkerson does.

I'm not a professional, I'm a blogger. I don't earn a cent from writing. I feel that I don't have to get opposing sides to stories or keep opinion out of my writings.

Irrelevant to the point which was you, even as a fan, are being incredibly irresponsible by essentially accusing App State of doing something shady with ZERO facts to support that claim on a public forum. You're right that you're not a professional, just a bad fan. And before you accuse me of something, if you had actually found something credible to criticize, I would totally support you making it public.

I could be wrong in my fears about the supplement program. As a fan I want to be wrong. But I feel like questions should be asked.

Then ask them! Ask people who can actually give you answers. Asking MMB won't get you any closer to the answer. Or are you too scared to ask Coach Mike and anyone at HES? I'm not accusing you or calling you names or anything. That's a genuine question.

I know I write my blogs in a certain style that not everyone likes.

Correct.


You have a right to express your opinion but as someone who claims to be a fan of App State, the way you're going about expressing this opinion is wrong and potentially damaging.

[APPdiesel]

Back to the original topic...where should funds go...

My first knee-jerk reaction was "facilities". Yes the track is ugly, yes it makes our stadium appear quaint and outdated, yes other schools take jabs at it, but does digging it up, dropping the field, adding another 3-4,000 seats make our football product any better? Absolutely not.

Our focus right now needs to be on things that make our football team better. The best answer is the endowment for coach's salaries. Assuming we keep winning - we need to do whatever it takes to keep our coaches in Boone long term.

No idea how much digging up a track costs. I believe I read an article once about BYU digging up their track and lowering their field and it was much more expensive than I would've thought. Let that budget come from ticket sales. 75c from each ticket sold until the budget is hit. Assuming 25k tickets sold each game, that would net $18,750 per game x 5 home games = $93,750 just this year. Saving money costs nothing because you have it just sitting there if you need it.

[Yosef]

I can certainly understand why several people may be upset over the article. I actually read it yesterday, and I did not read into it what it appears others did read into it. After re-reading the article today, I still don't really see it as accusatory as someone mentioned. I read it more of simply posing the questions that should be asked. The tone may be a bit more than some like and maybe it shines a light in a way some don't like, but I didn't read it as overly harsh either.

While I am sure everything is on the up and up, in the event it wasn't I would much rather someone pose the questions now for consideration than not have the questions posed at all and then face the attention UNC-Chapel Hill is getting now after their missteps. I (like I imagine everyone on this board) am interested in winning every game but winning it the right way, without compromising our integrity. In an increasingly complex world of college athletics, it is much better to be proactive than reactive.

Anyone is welcome to write articles here - in fact I've asked for more people to do so on multiple occasions so that we do have multiple perspectives being shared. T-dog and others will tell you that there is no micro-managing of what can and can not be published. I only asked him and others to write whatever they write in a respectable way and to keep it reasonably clean for the younger fans. Anyone here is welcome to write their own version or rebuttal if they want and it can go up on the front page.

According to Appalachian State's sports information director Mike Flynn, Yosef's Cabin is merely a blog:

"Unfortunately, we cannot accommodate requests from blogs and fan sites for
interviews or credentials. We really appreciate the enthusiasm and support for
Appalachian athletics that blogs and fan sites provide but for many reasons
(primarily time and resources), we only grant full media privileges to
"official" media outlets. I have pasted our definition of "official" media
outlets below." ".....I can't help you out with one-on-one Q&A's with coaches"

Over the last 2-3 years, there have been multiple occasions where Yosef's Cabin has tried to work with Appalachian State University athletics to get answers to questions, but the University has consistently told us we are nothing more than a blog/fan site and even though we might be one of if not the largest, they cannot help us as that would open the flood gates to all blogs / fan sites. I understand their position completely, however much I may not like it. With the University's position being such, we have and will continue to operate as a blog that can only write articles primarily based on opinions and independent research with no input from the University.

I say all of that because we do not have the ability to talk to Coach Iron Mike per Mike Flynn. I can't speak to Moose's conversation with t-dog as I wasn't a part of it, but I can say that Appalachian has not granted us the ability to ask questions to the coaches directly and thus, there wasn't much t-dog could do. If Appalachian does ever change their policy, obviously it would give us much better access so that the opportunity to ask the questions directly to Coach Mike or others first may help us get answers.

I really do hope Coach Mike isn't offended by the article (nor do I think he should be) as we all want what is best for Appalachian. If I got offended anytime someone questioned me in my job, I'd be offended every day of the week, and I bet many of you are in the same position. Mike wouldn't have the equipment he asked for without the support of Yosef's Cabin and the MMB and if he needs us to step up again the in the future, I have no doubt he won't hesitate to ask. We support him and his staff unconditionally.

[firemoose]

Just a suggestion but you might want to state somewhere on the front page that "these articles are blog posts and do not necessarily represent the views of Yosef's Cabin" for those who don't know any different. Given that people are listed as team members it can give the impression that they are part of the management of the board and thus represent the board.

[Gonzo]

There needs to be a disclaimer in great big letters at the top of the main page: "Blog posts are independently written and do not reflect on other bloggers, the MMB, or Appalachian State."

It was definitely accusatory. Through this 700 Club program this site has effectively developed a report with Mike and the S&C program. When he reads this, and I'm sure he eventually will, I don't anticipate him being pleased with the muckraking.

I'm sorry Thomas, but I know you, and I know you don't know shit about supplements, physical fitness, or the like. These guys are professionals with years of education and experience. They get paid to know what's appropriate, effective, and NCAA-compliant. You know, like you don't get paid to wrote about App State....

Strongly implying that they're in cahoots to make money and that the scandal is unhealthy to althetes or could lead to NCAA sanctions is NOT COOL. You don't know what you're taliking about.

[APPARJ]

There needs to be a disclaimer in great big letters at the top of the main page: "Blog posts are independently written and do not reflect on other bloggers, the MMB, or Appalachian State."

It was definitely accusatory. Through this 700 Club program this site has effectively developed a report with Mike and the S&C program. When he reads this, and I'm sure he eventually will, I don't anticipate him being pleased with the muckraking.

I'm sorry Thomas, but I know you, and I know you don't know shit about supplements, physical fitness, or the like. These guys are professionals with years of education and experience. They get paid to know what's appropriate, effective, and NCAA-compliant. You know, like you don't get paid to wrote about App State....

Strongly implying that they're in cahoots to make money and that the scandal is unhealthy to althetes or could lead to NCAA sanctions is NOT COOL. You don't know what you're taliking about.

Or how about not letting any Joe Schmo with an opinion post whatever they want on a site that gets a lot of eyeballs?

There's a huge difference between having strong opinions about App State athletics and making outrageous implications about foul play based on absolutely nothing.

I can tolerate a "FIRE SATT, BRING BACK MOORE AND GO BACK TO SOCON" article much more than an article written by a random fan accusing the school of putting illegal supplements in our athletes because of... money?... again, based on nothing.

Like it or not, that kind of subject matter is damaging and should never show up on this site.

I mean, look at the excerpt below. Implying our supplement vendor wants kids addicted to supplements so he can make a buck. Who wants to defend this being front and center of Yosef's Cabin?

What’s going to stop Hillman from next year saying a 300-pound lineman needs 500 grams of protein and trying to make Europa more money? If a lineman eats the best possible food he can during meals and can’t even get to half of what he needs in terms of protein, then it’s basically creating a dependency on the supplement and thus an addiction.

[T-Dog]

I'm sorry Thomas, but I know you, and I know you don't know shit about supplements, physical fitness, or the like.

Taylor, that's quite the scumbag thing to say. We've never had any conversations about these subjects so you're making accusatory statements based on my appearance. I just lost a lot of respect for you.

In the original article, Hillman mentions that they're walking a tightrope with NCAA regulations. I believe it's fair to ask the question asking to explains what exactly is this.

[Gonzo]

I'm sorry Thomas, but I know you, and I know you don't know shit about supplements, physical fitness, or the like.

Taylor, that's quite the scumbag thing to say. We've never had any conversations about these subjects so you're making accusatory statements based on my appearance. I just lost a lot of respect for you.

In the original article, Hillman mentions that they're walking a tightrope with NCAA regulations. I believe it's fair to ask the question asking to explains what exactly is this.

That's not what I meant re: your appearance. I'm just saying you have an English background. You're not a trainer, not even close. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Let's repeat this again: you're accusing a staff member within the App State Athletic Department of conspiring to get our athletes addicted to what you're saying might be a dangerous and illegal substance, all in an effort to make money. You're basing this off an article you read that says nothing like that.

The only thing missing are aliens, dude.

[TheMackAttack]

I'm sorry Thomas, but I know you, and I know you don't know shit about supplements, physical fitness, or the like.

Taylor, that's quite the scumbag thing to say. We've never had any conversations about these subjects so you're making accusatory statements based on my appearance. I just lost a lot of respect for you.

In the original article, Hillman mentions that they're walking a tightrope with NCAA regulations. I believe it's fair to ask the question asking to explains what exactly is this.

Pot, meet kettle.

[BeauFoster]

I'm sorry Thomas, but I know you, and I know you don't know shit about supplements, physical fitness, or the like.

Taylor, that's quite the scumbag thing to say. We've never had any conversations about these subjects so you're making accusatory statements based on my appearance. I just lost a lot of respect for you.

In the original article, Hillman mentions that they're walking a tightrope with NCAA regulations. I believe it's fair to ask the question asking to explains what exactly is this.

And I've lost any respect that I had for you.

I bet you believe the moon landing was done in a studio, don't you?

[JTApps1]

I will say that when I first started to read the article in June I had to pause and think; I hope we are being very careful to test all of this. After finishing the article and then speaking with people involved with the program and people with knowledge of Europa I felt completely comfortable. T-Dog mentions our dealings with the owner of Europa, but fails to mention working with Chip Sigmund who was our S&C coach in the 1980's before joining the Hornets. Chip loves App and has worked at the very highest levels of S&C. If he says these products meet NCAA requirements then they are good. I'm not sure of this, but I would imagine the team has been through at least 1 round of NCAA testing since using these supplements. If something was wrong with it then we would have likely found out by now.

As far as revealing the AppFuel formula goes, I want to ask why any fan would want our S&C department to publicly state that Supplement X gave us a huge boost mid-year? If we have a specific formula that nobody else is using why would we ever want our competition to know what it is?