# 14

[Boone Goon]

I'm a huge fan of Marcus Cox and he's going to be a legend in his own right, but I think the Hall of Fame game should also be the date we retire #14. Armanti and Coach Moore will be there, it's the perfect time to do the inevitable. It also allows Marcus two more seasons to establish his own number for retirement if he continues his current pace.

Thoughts?

[brownbs]

I think retiring the number at the name is a great idea. However I do think that Marcus should be "grandfathered" in, in terms of wearing 14. He should have the chance to continue wearing the number till he graduates but after that it is retired.

[EastHallApp]

I would have retired it the year after Armanti graduated, but now I'd wait until Cox is done. Then you could either retire it for Armanti, or, if warranted, try to plan a joint retirement ceremony and retire it for both of them.

Also I don't think the HOF game would be the time to do it, because that would basically be saying that Armanti is more important than the other inductees. Jersey retirement needs its own day.

[Gonzo]

I'm all for honoring AE as much as we can, but I'm a very superstitious guy when it comes to sports and #14 has been magical for us since 2007. Edwards, Price, and now Cox. Let's meet 'er going.

[Appstate88]

We have been playing football for over 80 years and believe we have only had retired jersey numbers for around 20 years. What if we un-retired all jersey numbers but keep them as Mountaineer Football Numbers of Honor.

The App State Football Coaches and Players could use them as numbers of honor/privilege to continue to promote excellence on the field. By wearing a number of honor, the player represents all the great ones that wore the number before them, it is now up to each player to add to the legacy that number represents…

We could use #14 (Armanti Edwards) , #23 (John Settle) for our best offensive skill players and add a number like #63 (Daniel Kilgore) for our best o-line.

We could use #32 (Dexter Coakley), #38 (Dino Hackett) and #71 (Larry Hand) would be reserved for our best defense players.

We could add a number like #27 (Sam Martin) for the best special teams player.

We would still have the numbers displayed within the stadium but now we are able to add names to list of players that wore one of these super (7) numbers for the black and gold.

[APPARJ]

As long as there are retired numbers, #14 should absolutely be retired. They should've retired it the day Armanti graduated.

That said, let Marcus Cox wear it until his time at App State is done.

[EastHallApp]

Retiring jerseys in football is tough because the roster size is such that most numbers are use by necessity. The idea of honoring jerseys does have some merit and could also be a recruiting tool, especially as we start to produce more recognizable NFL talent.

[elevate3333]

John Settle's #23 was the first to be retired, and his was retired on November 22, 1986. That was done before his last regular season game at Kidd Brewer Stadium. So, it has been done.

[Boone Goon]

i agree that:
1) AE's jersey should have been retired on his last home game of his senior year (but it wasn't)
2) # 14 should have never been given out the following season(s) to Price & Cox (but it was)

Marcus may end up breaking KRich's career rushing record and will probably be the subject of 'should we retire his jersey' conversations too...but won't that diminish or take away from AE's jersey retirement?

Marcus wore #9 in high school. He's worn 14 for the last two seasons, but could easily slid into another # and build on his legacy with that number over the next two seasons. There is a R-Fr defensive back who has # 9.

I do like the idea of allowing seniors to wear the "honor jersey" and not retire numbers. Similar to #10 in soccer, it's always worn by the team's captain or best player. It also allows the school to sell jersey's that are relevant and current. Because we all know it comes back to the Benjamin's!

[Boone Goon]

As I said in the first quote, I'm a big Marcus Cox fan! This has nothing to do with him, aside from he's wearing AE's jersey.

It's all about recognizing Appalachian's Greatest Football player of all time. That jersey should be retired. With Armanti being inducted into our HoF this season, it seems like the right time to announce it's retirement.

[MtnDevil95]

We have been playing football for over 80 years and believe we have only had retired jersey numbers for around 20 years. What if we un-retired all jersey numbers but keep them as Mountaineer Football Numbers of Honor.

The App State Football Coaches and Players could use them as numbers of honor/privilege to continue to promote excellence on the field. By wearing a number of honor, the player represents all the great ones that wore the number before them, it is now up to each player to add to the legacy that number represents…

We could use #14 (Armanti Edwards) , #23 (John Settle) for our best offensive skill players and add a number like #63 (Daniel Kilgore) for our best o-line.

We could use #32 (Dexter Coakley), #38 (Dino Hackett) and #71 (Larry Hand) would be reserved for our best defense players.

We could add a number like #27 (Sam Martin) for the best special teams player.

We would still have the numbers displayed within the stadium but now we are able to add names to list of players that wore one of these super (7) numbers for the black and gold.

NC State is doing something very similar, and I think they're starting this year. They are reissuing "retired" number and adding a patch to the jersey noting that it is a 'number of honor" or something along those lines.

[ASUGoose]

I'd be open to honoring the #14 jersey year in and year out in similar fashion to how LSU honors the #18 jersey.

http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.db ... =209606500

[NewApp]

As I said in the first quote, I'm a big Marcus Cox fan! This has nothing to do with him, aside from he's wearing AE's jersey.

It's all about recognizing Appalachian's Greatest Football player of all time. That jersey should be retired. With Armanti being inducted into our HoF this season, it seems like the right time to announce it's retirement.

A case could be made for Larry Hand being the best player of all time in that he stayed in the NFL for over a decade, I believe, and received various honors most of those years which was notable since he played at App while were still in NAIA. It's just that linemen don't often get the recognition and media exposure of the skill players while in college. Kilgore is an exception for the most part.
I believe Chuck knew him personally while he was at App.
_____________________________________________________________

Larry Hand
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Larry Hand Date of birth July 10, 1940 (age 75)
Place of birth Paterson, New Jersey
Career information
Position(s) Defensive tackle
College Appalachian State
NFL Draft 1964 / Round: 10 / Pick: 132
Career history
As player
1965-1977 Detroit Lions
Career stats

Playing stats at DatabaseFootball.com

Larry Thomas Hand (born July 10, 1940) is a former American Football defensive tackle who played for the Detroit Lions in a thirteen-year career that lasted from 1965 to 1977 in the National Football League.

Hand played college football at Appalachian State University, where he was a two-time NAIA All-American and was drafted in the tenth round of the 1964 NFL Draft by the Lions as a future selection (future selections could be used on players that had a year of college eligibility remaining but their class had graduated).

Hand is currently employed by Wachovia Securities and resides in the Winston-Salem area with his wife, Darlene.

[Boone Goon]

No disrespect, but Armanti is the Greatest APP of All Time, period. End of story. He turned out to not be the greatest NFL player, but that's a different topic.

I've been surprised how often our Equipment staff has given the same number to guys in the same class. I understand Fr getting the same number as Seniors, but Fr and So with the same number seems like someone isn't paying attention.

[NewApp]

[quote="Boone Goon"]No disrespect, but Armanti is the Greatest APP of All Time, period. End of story. He turned out to not be the greatest NFL player, but that's a different topic.

I've been surprised how often our Equipment staff has given the same number to guys in the same class. I understand Fr getting the same number as Seniors, but Fr and So with the same number seems like someone isn't paying attention.[/quote

No disrespect to either you or Armanti, but I alluded to the fact that Armanti was likely the best skill position player we had and his statistics prove it, but as to the NFL he was not only not the greatest, but he was a bust, granted partly because the "Pantythers" didn't know how to use him effectively. Period.

[Yosef10]

Pantyhers? Wow. If you're gonna blame the panthers you should blame the Browns and bears as well. It's not exactly a cake walk transitioning to WR in the NFL

[goapps]

I do partially blame the Panthers, most notably John Fox, for Armanti's lack of success. There are are lot of players who have a skill set that could lead to a decent career but need to be put into a position that matches those skills and provides them with the confidence necessary to succeed. I believe that had Armanti been drafted by the Pats where he would have played for a coach that wanted him and knew how to use him, perhaps as a flanker type of receiver catching balls out of the backfield. Or perhaps the Colts or any other team with an elite QB who could get the ball to him. Does anyone remember the the QBs that were playing for the Panthers in '09 and '10? Clawson, Moore and don't get me started on Brian St. Pierre. This is just my opinion but I don't believe that Fox wanted Armanti to succeed, he and Hurney disagreed on whether or not to draft AE and Fox seems likes just enough of an A-hole to set him up to fail just so he could say "I told you so". In '10 Fox likely knew he was going to be fired and he had no reason to try and develop a player that he never wanted and whose development he would never benefit from. Are there other teams for whom AE would have been a bust? Of course there are. I also think that given a different set of circumstances with another team and another head coach he may still be playing.

[WVAPPeer]

I will always blame Fox for what he did to Armanti - he used him as a "kiss my ass" to Hurney and it cost AE that important first year - after that I don't blame the Panthers until Gettleman cut him loose for no apparent reason only to move a practice player up who had never played - I think Rivera gave Armanti a shot and unfortunately he got hurt in the first preseason game and missed the entire preseason - He was playing for the Browns, he had caught a pass, run from the QB shotgun and returned punts in the game he got hurt, in fact I think it was about a 15 yard PR when he tore up his ankle - he never had a chance with the Bears - don't know if that was his only option or not but they had way too many receivers, returners in front of him - But they did give him a shot ---

AS for rewarding players by giving them the #14 I just don't like that plan - I saw it ruin Rod Thorn at WVU after the #44 was passed down to him from Jerry West and before him HotRod Hundley and he was no Jerry West (nor anyone else in those days) but he was very good but carried the weight of not being Jerry for 4 years - it wasn't fair ---

AND --- THE #14 SHOULD HAVE BEEN RETIRED AT ARMANTI'S FINAL REGULAR SEASON HOME GAME - END OF STORY !!! !!! !!! !!! !!


-

[appbanker]

From the Winston-Salem Journal (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/asu/fo ... 64dbd.html)

Loved the quotes by Cox. He has great respect for the history of #14

Carrying the torch

At least one sports store in Boone recently started selling Nike replica jerseys bearing the No. 14, but Marcus Cox — who currently wears the number — thought it had more to do with the number’s history.

Armanti Edwards, who led the Mountaineers to two national championships and twice won the Walter Payton Award, wore No. 14 from 2006-09.

“My opinion on that, I think that’s still a little bit Armanti out there with the 14, because of his impact,” Cox said.

Cox also pointed out Sean Price, who broke Randy Moss’ FCS freshman receiving yards record in 2012, as another player who wore the No. 14.

“I just feel like I’m another guy,” he said. “At same time, being associated with those guys is an honor, and it’s pretty cool.”

[asu66]

As I said in the first quote, I'm a big Marcus Cox fan! This has nothing to do with him, aside from he's wearing AE's jersey.

It's all about recognizing Appalachian's Greatest Football player of all time. That jersey should be retired. With Armanti being inducted into our HoF this season, it seems like the right time to announce it's retirement.

A case could be made for Larry Hand being the best player of all time in that he stayed in the NFL for over a decade, I believe, and received various honors most of those years which was notable since he played at App while were still in NAIA. It's just that linemen don't often get the recognition and media exposure of the skill players while in college. Kilgore is an exception for the most part.
I believe Chuck knew him personally while he was at App.
_____________________________________________________________

Larry Hand
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Larry Hand Date of birth July 10, 1940 (age 75)
Place of birth Paterson, New Jersey
Career information
Position(s) Defensive tackle
College Appalachian State
NFL Draft 1964 / Round: 10 / Pick: 132
Career history
As player
1965-1977 Detroit Lions
Career stats

Playing stats at DatabaseFootball.com

Larry Thomas Hand (born July 10, 1940) is a former American Football defensive tackle who played for the Detroit Lions in a thirteen-year career that lasted from 1965 to 1977 in the National Football League.

Hand played college football at Appalachian State University, where he was a two-time NAIA All-American and was drafted in the tenth round of the 1964 NFL Draft by the Lions as a future selection (future selections could be used on players that had a year of college eligibility remaining but their class had graduated).

Hand is currently employed by Wachovia Securities and resides in the Winston-Salem area with his wife, Darlene.

Just a few comments. It may be helpful to our forum to know that Hall of Fame "voting" is conducted by the executive committee of the ASU Former Athletes Association (ASU-FAA). Decisions about the retiring of numbers have been announced in the past by the AD's office in consultation with the FAA.

The very idea of naming ASU's best all-time football player is foreign to both history and to human capability. That's why the MLB Hall of Fame has never/will never take up a discussion of who's the best professional baseball player of all time. Was it Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Duke Snider, Willie Mayes, Sandy Koufax, Stan Musial, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron or one of those roids rage robots of the 90s to 2000s--Bonds or ARod or... It's impossible.

The discussion will never take place in Cooperstown or at ASU; because the guys who actually played the games know there's no way to fairly compare players across the decades or in consideration of all the immeasurable intangibles. Just ain't gonna happen.

And, yes, Larry Hand and I have been close friends since 1960 something. He was my dorm mate on first-floor Newland; my teammate in T & F field events; and my friend. I was his biggest fan all those years with the Lions. Since his retirement from the NFL, he's also been my advisor--now with Well-Fargo Advisors in W-S.

Despite the fact that I'm proud that Larry's big #71 is retired, I think the decision to retire numbers, rather than jerseys, was short-sighted. Going forward another 50 years, the time will come when football numbering will have to be revised in some way--using three digits...such as #101, 102, 103 or some other convoluted solution. Silly and unnecessary if proper step had been taken earlier.

Fear not, that train has left the station... Number retirement will likely continue.