Boone Vandalism Case

[HighlandsApp]

So much for only focusing on AppState student athletes and not having political posts.

[tjpappy]

Interesting discussion .. My initial reaction was to question whether their motivation was really political or whether they truly carried the political beliefs the graffiti espoused. That was particularly spurred by the "BLM" statement and the fact that Earth Fare was a target. First, if you are concerned about police reactions to African Americans why spray paint a statement that might actually cast (unwarranted) suspicion upon a community that you may support but do not share the risk of biased treatment that they may carry. Also, Earth Fare - a place that one might assume would be populated with a diverse or even left-leaning political crowd - seemed an odd target. Clearly others have more information about the confessed perpetrators that I. Just thoughts...

[T-Dog]

I wonder how many people here who are calling for felony charges and expulsion for vandalism are going to feel the same about the two App basketball players who were arrested for vandalism (and pot)? All first-time offenders.

And before anyone asks, I currently don't know any more details about the latter's case.

[WVAPPeer]

"I don't really believe that we should have different levels of punishment based on the motive (violent crimes not withstanding). What concerns me about this situation is that a group of people felt they were justified because of their political/social beliefs. I'm afraid that's trending, too"

You mean like the white-supremacist fascist nazi American who murdered 9 African-Americans in a church just because they were black?

[Saint3333]

Well now we've ventured into crazy town I see.

Time to lock this one down.

[WVAPPeer]

Well now we've ventured into crazy town I see.

Time to lock this one down.

Just trying to point out how some people blow things way out of proportion ---

[Appdoggy]

How about everyone just put their pitchforks down for a second.. You all are getting into such a frenzy over this Fox "News" -like sensationalist story. The graffiti was bush-league and incredibly stupid. But it was graffiti (not a felony) and from what I've heard, it was their first offense... They should absolutely have to pay restitution (compensating for repairs and such) as well as do community service and the school should put them on probation. No any additional punishments that could seriously jeopardize their futures (i.e. felony charges or expulsion) are really warranted. Just because someone who has a different viewpoint then you does something misdemeanor-level stupid, doesn't mean we should burn them at the stake.

It's funny how some pick and choose their causes. Where was all this uproar when a certain safety from App beat on his girlfriend w/ a closed fist a few years ago? Granted the charges were dropped (b/c gf likely didn't cooperate w/ police), but the board was significantly quieter then...

Sorry, these girls were claiming the moral high ground and accusing "ALL FRAT BOYS" of being rapists. Now they're caught actually doing something illegal and we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Nope...that's not how the real world works.

These types of people are the worst of our society. They preach tolerance and condemn beliefs they don't agree with. In her case she publicly chastised 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores for trying to organize a university sponsored educational course on rape prevention.

Flip this story around and ask where would she be if it had been 4 white males in their 20's who had spray painted pro-Trump/anti-HRC slogans on the same locations around Boone. What would her demands of the university and community have been? Double standard?? Like several on the board, I have some additional knowledge of these women beyond whats being captured in the media reports; and none of it reflects positively on them. NONE.

Protests are fine. Vandalism isn't. Slandering someone just because you don't agree with them unacceptable and should be grounds for expulsion.

So yeah, I've got a pitchfork and I'm damn proud of it.

Whew.. Glad you aren't in a position of power.. It's completely irrelevant what her thoughts would be. It's not as if she is making the decisions. If the roles were reversed, the pro-trump graffiti kids shouldn't be expelled either. And let us be real, if the roles had been reversed you wouldn't be on here with your pitchfork.

This is low level, misdemeanor property damage. Your "zero tolerance" disciplinary proposal of expelling first-time offenders facing low-level charges, is a dangerous road to go down. I know of kids when I was at App that got DWIs. This, in my mind, is a far more serious offense, where the perpetrator is actually putting innocent bystander's lives at risk. These kids were put on probation and not expelled... With this in mind, how could you possibly justify an expulsion of kids who on one occasion spray painted some buildings and a car, causing no risk to human lives?

[bcoach]

I wonder how many people here who are calling for felony charges and expulsion for vandalism are going to feel the same about the two App basketball players who were arrested for vandalism (and pot)? All first-time offenders.

And before anyone asks, I currently don't know any more details about the latter's case.

I for one would call for the same penalties for the same offense to be dished out to all. Being a BB player would have absolutely no bearing at all. That is in spite of the fact that I would look at a scholarship athlete doing this to be even more offensive.

[bcoach]

How about everyone just put their pitchforks down for a second.. You all are getting into such a frenzy over this Fox "News" -like sensationalist story. The graffiti was bush-league and incredibly stupid. But it was graffiti (not a felony) and from what I've heard, it was their first offense... They should absolutely have to pay restitution (compensating for repairs and such) as well as do community service and the school should put them on probation. No any additional punishments that could seriously jeopardize their futures (i.e. felony charges or expulsion) are really warranted. Just because someone who has a different viewpoint then you does something misdemeanor-level stupid, doesn't mean we should burn them at the stake.

It's funny how some pick and choose their causes. Where was all this uproar when a certain safety from App beat on his girlfriend w/ a closed fist a few years ago? Granted the charges were dropped (b/c gf likely didn't cooperate w/ police), but the board was significantly quieter then...

Sorry, these girls were claiming the moral high ground and accusing "ALL FRAT BOYS" of being rapists. Now they're caught actually doing something illegal and we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Nope...that's not how the real world works.

These types of people are the worst of our society. They preach tolerance and condemn beliefs they don't agree with. In her case she publicly chastised 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores for trying to organize a university sponsored educational course on rape prevention.

Flip this story around and ask where would she be if it had been 4 white males in their 20's who had spray painted pro-Trump/anti-HRC slogans on the same locations around Boone. What would her demands of the university and community have been? Double standard?? Like several on the board, I have some additional knowledge of these women beyond whats being captured in the media reports; and none of it reflects positively on them. NONE.

Protests are fine. Vandalism isn't. Slandering someone just because you don't agree with them unacceptable and should be grounds for expulsion.

So yeah, I've got a pitchfork and I'm damn proud of it.

Whew.. Glad you aren't in a position of power.. It's completely irrelevant what her thoughts would be. It's not as if she is making the decisions. If the roles were reversed, the pro-trump graffiti kids shouldn't be expelled either. And let us be real, if the roles had been reversed you wouldn't be on here with your pitchfork.

This is low level, misdemeanor property damage. Your "zero tolerance" disciplinary proposal of expelling first-time offenders facing low-level charges, is a dangerous road to go down. I know of kids when I was at App that got DWIs. This, in my mind, is a far more serious offense, where the perpetrator is actually putting innocent bystanders lives at risk. These kids were put on probation and not expelled... How could you possibly justify an expulsion of kids who on one occasion spray painted some buildings and a car, causing no risk to human lives.

Ask the business owner how low level they think it is.

[Gonzo]

Well I don't really get into the "well he did it " mentality because that is just something to say when you don't have a leg to stand on. I will say though that if a man beats on a woman I don't sit back. He needs to go to the big house for a very long time and that is only because I would go to jail for what really needs to happen to him. Now you may call it graffiti to make it sound less than it is but it is destruction of property. They should have thought of their futures BEFORE they damaged property. They should be expelled and the teacher has demonstrated she should not be teaching children. I will also stick with my week in jail. One last thing. First time offender is bull crap as a defense.

He called it graffiti because they've been charged with misdemeanor graffiti vandalism and misdemeanor damage to personal property. Those are appropriate charges given what happened. Those are class 1 misdemeanors which carry a max of 45 days in jail for anyone with 1-4 prior convictions.

If people want these women prosecuted as felons so badly, maybe have someone come forward to the police about the one girl intentionally locking her room mate in the bathroom for a day or putting oils on the ground so she'd fall and hurt herself. Maybe those can be felonies.

First time offender programs are not "bull crap as a defense." You need to keep in mind that this didn't occur in a vacuum and one day your kid might do something stupid with a can of spray paint.

[Boone Goon]

I wonder how many people here who are calling for felony charges and expulsion for vandalism are going to feel the same about the two App basketball players who were arrested for vandalism (and pot)? All first-time offenders.

And before anyone asks, I currently don't know any more details about the latter's case.

It's a fair question and I'll wait to answer until I have specifics on the vandalism conducted by the 2 MBB players.

I don't see these 4 women as "first-time offender"s. At least in the case of Grainger, she's guilty of slander, but the 4 white male victims didn't bring a case against her.

[Appdoggy]

How about everyone just put their pitchforks down for a second.. You all are getting into such a frenzy over this Fox "News" -like sensationalist story. The graffiti was bush-league and incredibly stupid. But it was graffiti (not a felony) and from what I've heard, it was their first offense... They should absolutely have to pay restitution (compensating for repairs and such) as well as do community service and the school should put them on probation. No any additional punishments that could seriously jeopardize their futures (i.e. felony charges or expulsion) are really warranted. Just because someone who has a different viewpoint then you does something misdemeanor-level stupid, doesn't mean we should burn them at the stake.

It's funny how some pick and choose their causes. Where was all this uproar when a certain safety from App beat on his girlfriend w/ a closed fist a few years ago? Granted the charges were dropped (b/c gf likely didn't cooperate w/ police), but the board was significantly quieter then...

Sorry, these girls were claiming the moral high ground and accusing "ALL FRAT BOYS" of being rapists. Now they're caught actually doing something illegal and we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Nope...that's not how the real world works.

These types of people are the worst of our society. They preach tolerance and condemn beliefs they don't agree with. In her case she publicly chastised 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores for trying to organize a university sponsored educational course on rape prevention.

Flip this story around and ask where would she be if it had been 4 white males in their 20's who had spray painted pro-Trump/anti-HRC slogans on the same locations around Boone. What would her demands of the university and community have been? Double standard?? Like several on the board, I have some additional knowledge of these women beyond whats being captured in the media reports; and none of it reflects positively on them. NONE.

Protests are fine. Vandalism isn't. Slandering someone just because you don't agree with them unacceptable and should be grounds for expulsion.

So yeah, I've got a pitchfork and I'm damn proud of it.

Whew.. Glad you aren't in a position of power.. It's completely irrelevant what her thoughts would be. It's not as if she is making the decisions. If the roles were reversed, the pro-trump graffiti kids shouldn't be expelled either. And let us be real, if the roles had been reversed you wouldn't be on here with your pitchfork.

This is low level, misdemeanor property damage. Your "zero tolerance" disciplinary proposal of expelling first-time offenders facing low-level charges, is a dangerous road to go down. I know of kids when I was at App that got DWIs. This, in my mind, is a far more serious offense, where the perpetrator is actually putting innocent bystanders lives at risk. These kids were put on probation and not expelled... How could you possibly justify an expulsion of kids who on one occasion spray painted some buildings and a car, causing no risk to human lives.

Ask the business owner how low level they think it is.

It's probably no higher on the list than stealing money from an employer, which one of our football players was caught doing earlier this year and he played the whole season, let alone stayed in school. I'm not saying it wasn't the right decision to keep him on the team, but just to put things into perspective..

[Boone Goon]

How about everyone just put their pitchforks down for a second.. You all are getting into such a frenzy over this Fox "News" -like sensationalist story. The graffiti was bush-league and incredibly stupid. But it was graffiti (not a felony) and from what I've heard, it was their first offense... They should absolutely have to pay restitution (compensating for repairs and such) as well as do community service and the school should put them on probation. No any additional punishments that could seriously jeopardize their futures (i.e. felony charges or expulsion) are really warranted. Just because someone who has a different viewpoint then you does something misdemeanor-level stupid, doesn't mean we should burn them at the stake.

It's funny how some pick and choose their causes. Where was all this uproar when a certain safety from App beat on his girlfriend w/ a closed fist a few years ago? Granted the charges were dropped (b/c gf likely didn't cooperate w/ police), but the board was significantly quieter then...

Sorry, these girls were claiming the moral high ground and accusing "ALL FRAT BOYS" of being rapists. Now they're caught actually doing something illegal and we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Nope...that's not how the real world works.

These types of people are the worst of our society. They preach tolerance and condemn beliefs they don't agree with. In her case she publicly chastised 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores for trying to organize a university sponsored educational course on rape prevention.

Flip this story around and ask where would she be if it had been 4 white males in their 20's who had spray painted pro-Trump/anti-HRC slogans on the same locations around Boone. What would her demands of the university and community have been? Double standard?? Like several on the board, I have some additional knowledge of these women beyond whats being captured in the media reports; and none of it reflects positively on them. NONE.

Protests are fine. Vandalism isn't. Slandering someone just because you don't agree with them unacceptable and should be grounds for expulsion.

So yeah, I've got a pitchfork and I'm damn proud of it.

Whew.. Glad you aren't in a position of power.. It's completely irrelevant what her thoughts would be. It's not as if she is making the decisions. If the roles were reversed, the pro-trump graffiti kids shouldn't be expelled either. And let us be real, if the roles had been reversed you wouldn't be on here with your pitchfork.

This is low level, misdemeanor property damage. Your "zero tolerance" disciplinary proposal of expelling first-time offenders facing low-level charges, is a dangerous road to go down. I know of kids when I was at App that got DWIs. This, in my mind, is a far more serious offense, where the perpetrator is actually putting innocent bystander's lives at risk. These kids were put on probation and not expelled... With this in mind, how could you possibly justify an expulsion of kids who on one occasion spray painted some buildings and a car, causing no risk to human lives?

Ironically, I would be just as up in arms if the vandalism said anything at all. Politics be damned. My point is Grainger's stance would flip completely. And yes, I would want a Trump supporter to be expelled too. But you missed that point.

Sweeping this under the rug as 'kids being kids' is way off base. As someone asked in an earlier post, 'how old is too old to use that defense?' These 4 are in their 20s. These aren't middle schoolers setting fire to bubble gum wrappers. They vandalized businesses and government property. Grainger has falsely accused multiple members of the ASU community during her time on campus, but the university has refused to address her malicious behavior directly and now it's boiled over into vandalism.

[T-Dog]

I don't see these 4 women as "first-time offender"s. At least in the case of Grainger, she's guilty of slander, but the 4 white male victims didn't bring a case against her.

It doesn't matter how public perception is, in the eyes of the court, the ladies are first time offenders.

[Gonzo]

I wonder how many people here who are calling for felony charges and expulsion for vandalism are going to feel the same about the two App basketball players who were arrested for vandalism (and pot)? All first-time offenders.

And before anyone asks, I currently don't know any more details about the latter's case.

It's a fair question and I'll wait to answer until I have specifics on the vandalism conducted by the 2 MBB players.

I don't see these 4 women as "first-time offender"s. At least in the case of Grainger, she's guilty of slander, but the 4 white male victims didn't bring a case against her.

Slander isn't a crime, dawg. Civil cause of action maybe.

[Appdoggy]

I wonder how many people here who are calling for felony charges and expulsion for vandalism are going to feel the same about the two App basketball players who were arrested for vandalism (and pot)? All first-time offenders.

And before anyone asks, I currently don't know any more details about the latter's case.

It's a fair question and I'll wait to answer until I have specifics on the vandalism conducted by the 2 MBB players.

I don't see these 4 women as "first-time offender"s. At least in the case of Grainger, she's guilty of slander, but the 4 white male victims didn't bring a case against her.

Slander isn't a crime, dawg. Civil cause of action maybe.

Haha thank you. I think many on here could benefit from a bit of legal education.

[Boone Goon]

I wonder how many people here who are calling for felony charges and expulsion for vandalism are going to feel the same about the two App basketball players who were arrested for vandalism (and pot)? All first-time offenders.

And before anyone asks, I currently don't know any more details about the latter's case.

It's a fair question and I'll wait to answer until I have specifics on the vandalism conducted by the 2 MBB players.

I don't see these 4 women as "first-time offender"s. At least in the case of Grainger, she's guilty of slander, but the 4 white male victims didn't bring a case against her.

Slander isn't a crime, dawg. Civil cause of action maybe.

True. Thanks for the reminder...at least and in all actuality in the case of the fraternity members it was libel, but I digress.

[Appdoggy]

I wonder how many people here who are calling for felony charges and expulsion for vandalism are going to feel the same about the two App basketball players who were arrested for vandalism (and pot)? All first-time offenders.

And before anyone asks, I currently don't know any more details about the latter's case.

It's a fair question and I'll wait to answer until I have specifics on the vandalism conducted by the 2 MBB players.

I don't see these 4 women as "first-time offender"s. At least in the case of Grainger, she's guilty of slander, but the 4 white male victims didn't bring a case against her.

Slander isn't a crime, dawg. Civil cause of action maybe.

True. Thanks for the reminder...at least and in all actuality in the case of the fraternity members it was libel, but I digress.

You're learning!

[bcoach]

Well I don't really get into the "well he did it " mentality because that is just something to say when you don't have a leg to stand on. I will say though that if a man beats on a woman I don't sit back. He needs to go to the big house for a very long time and that is only because I would go to jail for what really needs to happen to him. Now you may call it graffiti to make it sound less than it is but it is destruction of property. They should have thought of their futures BEFORE they damaged property. They should be expelled and the teacher has demonstrated she should not be teaching children. I will also stick with my week in jail. One last thing. First time offender is bull crap as a defense.

He called it graffiti because they've been charged with misdemeanor graffiti vandalism and misdemeanor damage to personal property. Those are appropriate charges given what happened. Those are class 1 misdemeanors which carry a max of 45 days in jail for anyone with 1-4 prior convictions.

If people want these women prosecuted as felons so badly, maybe have someone come forward to the police about the one girl intentionally locking her room mate in the bathroom for a day or putting oils on the ground so she'd fall and hurt herself. Maybe those can be felonies.

First time offender programs are not "bull crap as a defense." You need to keep in mind that this didn't occur in a vacuum and one day your kid might do something stupid with a can of spray paint.

I understand what you are saying about the graffiti and I am sorry I was a little strong but here is my take. I am not a lawyer and don't really care if it is a felony although I am sure they do. I have said they need a week in jail. They need a $5000 fine and pay for the damage. I think community service is a crock. I do believe that " first time offender is crap in many, many cases and this is one. I do understand there may be cases where it could apply. Here is one thing I don't have to guess about though. Both of my children went to APP and never did one tiny little bit of damage to the school or the town of BOONE. They also never spray painted any graffiti anywhere. As they both have children of their own I don't think they will start now. I have always operated under the theory that if it is wrong, you know it is wrong, and you do it anyway, well there is just no excuse.
To think that a TEACHER who does something like this could get any relief from being a first time offender is just beyond the pale in my book. Now I will most certainly bow to you on legal matters in the vast majority of cases. When it comes to what I believe to be right and wrong though, I am pretty set in my ways.

[bcoach]

How about everyone just put their pitchforks down for a second.. You all are getting into such a frenzy over this Fox "News" -like sensationalist story. The graffiti was bush-league and incredibly stupid. But it was graffiti (not a felony) and from what I've heard, it was their first offense... They should absolutely have to pay restitution (compensating for repairs and such) as well as do community service and the school should put them on probation. No any additional punishments that could seriously jeopardize their futures (i.e. felony charges or expulsion) are really warranted. Just because someone who has a different viewpoint then you does something misdemeanor-level stupid, doesn't mean we should burn them at the stake.

It's funny how some pick and choose their causes. Where was all this uproar when a certain safety from App beat on his girlfriend w/ a closed fist a few years ago? Granted the charges were dropped (b/c gf likely didn't cooperate w/ police), but the board was significantly quieter then...

Sorry, these girls were claiming the moral high ground and accusing "ALL FRAT BOYS" of being rapists. Now they're caught actually doing something illegal and we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Nope...that's not how the real world works.

These types of people are the worst of our society. They preach tolerance and condemn beliefs they don't agree with. In her case she publicly chastised 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores for trying to organize a university sponsored educational course on rape prevention.

Flip this story around and ask where would she be if it had been 4 white males in their 20's who had spray painted pro-Trump/anti-HRC slogans on the same locations around Boone. What would her demands of the university and community have been? Double standard?? Like several on the board, I have some additional knowledge of these women beyond whats being captured in the media reports; and none of it reflects positively on them. NONE.

Protests are fine. Vandalism isn't. Slandering someone just because you don't agree with them unacceptable and should be grounds for expulsion.

So yeah, I've got a pitchfork and I'm damn proud of it.

Whew.. Glad you aren't in a position of power.. It's completely irrelevant what her thoughts would be. It's not as if she is making the decisions. If the roles were reversed, the pro-trump graffiti kids shouldn't be expelled either. And let us be real, if the roles had been reversed you wouldn't be on here with your pitchfork.

This is low level, misdemeanor property damage. Your "zero tolerance" disciplinary proposal of expelling first-time offenders facing low-level charges, is a dangerous road to go down. I know of kids when I was at App that got DWIs. This, in my mind, is a far more serious offense, where the perpetrator is actually putting innocent bystanders lives at risk. These kids were put on probation and not expelled... How could you possibly justify an expulsion of kids who on one occasion spray painted some buildings and a car, causing no risk to human lives.

Ask the business owner how low level they think it is.

It's probably no higher on the list than stealing money from an employer, which one of our football players was caught doing earlier this year and he played the whole season, let alone stayed in school. I'm not saying it wasn't the right decision to keep him on the team, but just to put things into perspective..

Here we go again with the "well he did it". My stance is that he would not be playing on MY team.