New York Times article on FCS/FBS

[Michael Martin]

http://nyti.ms/Tz7bM9

I don't think there is anything here we don't already know, but it was interesting to see ASU in the list of schools that are seeking a move.

[kiddbrewer]

http://nyti.ms/Tz7bM9

I don't think there is anything here we don't already know, but it was interesting to see ASU in the list of schools that are seeking a move.

Missed it by "that" much.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1466

[Michael Martin]

Posted this morning without reading the threads from last night. Forgive me.

[JCline0429]

http://nyti.ms/Tz7bM9

I don't think there is anything here we don't already know, but it was interesting to see ASU in the list of schools that are seeking a move.

The picture of UMass' near empty stadium is telling. They're not the only one this has happened to.

[BeauFoster]

http://nyti.ms/Tz7bM9

I don't think there is anything here we don't already know, but it was interesting to see ASU in the list of schools that are seeking a move.

The picture of UMass' near empty stadium is telling. They're not the only one this has happened to.

Their stadium was empty when they were FCS, too...just like tons of others in all leagues (even the NFL)

[JCline0429]

http://nyti.ms/Tz7bM9

I don't think there is anything here we don't already know, but it was interesting to see ASU in the list of schools that are seeking a move.

The picture of UMass' near empty stadium is telling. They're not the only one this has happened to.

Their stadium was empty when they were FCS, too...just like tons of others in all leagues (even the NFL)

Considering the distance, they sure showed up in Nooga.
According to stats it wasn't nearly that bad prior to moving up. FBS is supposed to increase attendance not lower it according to posters on this board and I seem to recall from the study.

[BeauFoster]

UMass' first problem was moving home games from a campus stadium in Amherst to Gillette Stadium. That's approximately 90 miles away. It was stupid, and showed that they are ill prepared for a move. Their attendance woes have absolutely nothing to do with ASU moving up.

[JCline0429]

UMass' first problem was moving home games from a campus stadium in Amherst to Gillette Stadium. That's approximately 90 miles away. It was stupid, and showed that they are ill prepared for a move. Their attendance woes have absolutely nothing to do with ASU moving up.

From an article: After all, the move up to FBS, college football’s highest division, was supposed to bring a financial windfall of sorts, so how much profit can the Minutemen actually turn in the first week of “The Great Gillette Experiment?”

I tend to agree about the not being ready to move up:

" The Minutemen could not have moved up to the FBS without playing their games somewhere else other than McGuirk Stadium for a while.

“We were not comfortable playing in their on-campus facility until some things were taken care of,” Mid-American Conference Commissioner Dr. Jon A. Steinbrecher said. “(UMass) was unique in that they had a way to manage that so that we could move forward. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have.”

The MAC’s issues stemmed from the inadequate size and quality of the press box and visiting locker room facilities. Upgrades to both are well into the design phase, and will take two years to complete, according to UMass Athletic Director John McCutcheon."

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/ ... l?page=all

[asumike83]

All of those are valid points. Their on-campus facilities were sub par and the MAC did not want to play games there, which is certainly not a problem for Appalachian.

UMass also had losing seasons 2 of their final 3 years in the CAA while still playing on campus. In the two losing seasons, they averaged around 10K. In the winning season, they averaged 13K. At its best, their fan support was about half of what ours is and once they decided to move their games 90 miles from campus, the attendance predictably dropped.

The transition was done in haste and handled very poorly by the UMass administration, while we have been preparing and upgrading our facilities for several years. Add to that the fact that they are a basketball school and it truly is an apples to oranges comparison as it relates to us.

[JCline0429]

If we go 1-11 a couple years, it will be at least tangerines to oranges.

At least we don't have the problem of being a basketball school.

[BeauFoster]

If we go 1-11 a couple years, it will be at least tangerines to oranges.

At least we don't have the problem of being a basketball school.

The same holds true if we remain FCS or drop down a division or two. The point is, there is absolutely no comparisons to be made between ASU and UMass as far as a transition goes. ASU is 1000 times more prepared-in facilities, fan support, recruiting, monetary support, student support (attendance) and leadership. The only thing to take from the UMass move is how not to do it, and that only stands in terms of the transition period. There is no telling what will happen in 10 years or more.

No one seems to throw punches at WKU on here any more, now that they have experienced some successes. UMass could just as easily turn it around as fall flat on their faces.

[ASUMountaineer]

If we go 1-11 a couple years, it will be at least tangerines to oranges.

At least we don't have the problem of being a basketball school.

I wonder what would happen if ASU went 1-11 for a couple of years if we maintain the status quo, or are you saying that we could only do that poorly in FBS? I hear a lot of pro-FCS folk all but guarantee a slew of losing seasons for ASU if it moves to FBS, and they seem to guarantee that we will never have a losing season and always compete for a title if we just stay FCS. I'm not so convinced.

[JCline0429]

If we go 1-11 a couple years, it will be at least tangerines to oranges.

At least we don't have the problem of being a basketball school.

I wonder what would happen if ASU went 1-11 for a couple of years if we maintain the status quo, or are you saying that we could only do that poorly in FBS? I hear a lot of pro-FCS folk all but guarantee a slew of losing seasons for ASU if it moves to FBS, and they seem to guarantee that we will never have a losing season and always compete for a title if we just stay FCS. I'm not so convinced.

We will at least have some mediocre seasons initially.
BTW, I don't recall ANYBODY talking to the extremes you cite.
BTW2, I repped your post as I am not convinced regarding either level.

[ASUMountaineer]

If we go 1-11 a couple years, it will be at least tangerines to oranges.

At least we don't have the problem of being a basketball school.

I wonder what would happen if ASU went 1-11 for a couple of years if we maintain the status quo, or are you saying that we could only do that poorly in FBS? I hear a lot of pro-FCS folk all but guarantee a slew of losing seasons for ASU if it moves to FBS, and they seem to guarantee that we will never have a losing season and always compete for a title if we just stay FCS. I'm not so convinced.

We will at least have some mediocre seasons initially.
BTW, I don't recall ANYBODY talking to the extremes you cite.

Yet you're talking about 1-11 seasons--nope, not extreme at all.

Please notice the word "seem."

I don't think anyone doubts we may have "mediocre" seasons initially.

[JCline0429]

I'm just not prepared for multiple mediocre seasons after what we have achieved in recent years....and I doubt the majority of the fan base is. I know it will be hard to find a coach to come here during the transition period without a long term contract especially with the pay level for the staff the report indicated.
Please note my revision of my first reply to the earlier quote and the rep point given.
As to extreme, I countered the extreme suppositions by figures that could be equally so. We got a lot of criticism for "running up the score in some of those 11 games.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm just not prepared for multiple mediocre seasons after what we have achieved in recent years....and I doubt the majority of the fan base is. I know it will be hard to find a coach to come here during the transition period without a long term contract especially with the pay level for the staff the report indicated.

All change is hard. The last few paragraphs of that piece brings up additional concerns that ASU's admin has to consider. If the NCAA is forced to split FBS again, would ASU rather be in what becomes the second tier (like we are now), or keep steady in FCS and become part of a third tier. ASU has apparently made its decision, and it was undoubtedly a tough decision. I don't profess to have the answer as to which is the best option, I only have an opinion.

What I keep reminding myself is that the decision needs to be what's best for Appalachian State University, not ASUMountaineer.

Thanks for the rep!

[JCline0429]

I'm just not prepared for multiple mediocre seasons after what we have achieved in recent years....and I doubt the majority of the fan base is. I know it will be hard to find a coach to come here during the transition period without a long term contract especially with the pay level for the staff the report indicated.

All change is hard. The last few paragraphs of that piece brings up additional concerns that ASU's admin has to consider. If the NCAA is forced to split FBS again, would ASU rather be in what becomes the second tier (like we are now), or keep steady in FCS and become part of a third tier. ASU has apparently made its decision, and it was undoubtedly a tough decision. I don't profess to have the answer as to which is the best option, I only have an opinion.

What I keep reminding myself is that the decision needs to be what's best for Appalachian State University, not ASUMountaineer.

Thanks for the rep!

I have just questioned whether the decison was based on the level of comparison of facts or yielding to pressure from one or two of the big donors and especially those who funded the study...including one of our trustees.
We have a history of yielding to pressure in the firing of Fancher, the hiring of Buzz and then the hiring of Capel. Those decisons have propelled us into very disappointing seasons. Buzz did alright but with Fancher's recruits.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm just not prepared for multiple mediocre seasons after what we have achieved in recent years....and I doubt the majority of the fan base is. I know it will be hard to find a coach to come here during the transition period without a long term contract especially with the pay level for the staff the report indicated.

All change is hard. The last few paragraphs of that piece brings up additional concerns that ASU's admin has to consider. If the NCAA is forced to split FBS again, would ASU rather be in what becomes the second tier (like we are now), or keep steady in FCS and become part of a third tier. ASU has apparently made its decision, and it was undoubtedly a tough decision. I don't profess to have the answer as to which is the best option, I only have an opinion.

What I keep reminding myself is that the decision needs to be what's best for Appalachian State University, not ASUMountaineer.

Thanks for the rep!

I have just questioned whether the decison was based on the level of comparison of facts or yielding to pressure from one or two of the big donors and especially those who funded the study...including one of our trustees.
We have a history of yielding to pressure in the firing of Fancher, the hiring of Buzz and then the hiring of Capel. Those decisons have propelled us into very disappointing seasons. Buzz did alright but with Fancher's recruits.

I understand that, but I'm not convinced that ASU's leaders have approached this decision lightly. This decision will impact the careers of two men in large ways--Chancellor Peacock and Charlie Cobb. I think it will impact Charlie Cobb the most. One thing that is clear is that they have more information than us, and it sounds like you may not trust their use of that information. I can only speak for me, and I still defer to their judgment.

[JCline0429]

I'm just not prepared for multiple mediocre seasons after what we have achieved in recent years....and I doubt the majority of the fan base is. I know it will be hard to find a coach to come here during the transition period without a long term contract especially with the pay level for the staff the report indicated.

All change is hard. The last few paragraphs of that piece brings up additional concerns that ASU's admin has to consider. If the NCAA is forced to split FBS again, would ASU rather be in what becomes the second tier (like we are now), or keep steady in FCS and become part of a third tier. ASU has apparently made its decision, and it was undoubtedly a tough decision. I don't profess to have the answer as to which is the best option, I only have an opinion.

What I keep reminding myself is that the decision needs to be what's best for Appalachian State University, not ASUMountaineer.

Thanks for the rep!

I have just questioned whether the decison was based on the level of comparison of facts or yielding to pressure from one or two of the big donors and especially those who funded the study...including one of our trustees.
We have a history of yielding to pressure in the firing of Fancher, the hiring of Buzz and then the hiring of Capel. Those decisons have propelled us into very disappointing seasons. Buzz did alright but with Fancher's recruits.

I understand that, but I'm not convinced that ASU's leaders have approached this decision lightly. This decision will impact the careers of two men in large ways--Chancellor Peacock and Charlie Cobb. I think it will impact Charlie Cobb the most. One thing that is clear is that they have more information than us, and it sounds like you may not trust their use of that information. I can only speak for me, and I still defer to their judgment.

I don't think it affects Charlie Cobb's career negatively except by his choice because I doubt he will want to stay around during the challenging years of the transition. He looked for situations of established FBS programs, not transitions. He's already tried to leave at least twice already.
As to the information, Mountaineer, the financial projections were put on line a few weeks after the decision. I read them but was skeptical of the projections and especially to the level we might achieve financially. It looked like a close call.