Could App get the invite to the AAC?

[BallantyneApp]

I just don’t see it.

Our athletic funding is nowhere near competitive with the rest of the AAC.

Most AAC schools are large market/commuter type institutions.

Houston
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Memphis
SMU
Temple
Tulane
Tulsa

All in large cities.

ECU & Navy the only outliers. Greenville still has 100k people and Annapolis is a borderline suburb of DC.


I’d love it, I just don’t see it.


If I had to bet, I’d put my money on one of:

ODU
Ga State
UNCC
UAB

With probably Ga State leading the pack. Especially if they keep improving in football over the next couple years. They’d fill a giant void in Georgia. Huge enrollment. Good basketball. Massive stadium.

Hope I’m wrong.

If the AAC is determined to be the 6th member of the Power 5, they're not going to add any of those teams...they're going to want heavy hitting football programs which boost up the quality of the conference's strength. And granted three out of the four teams you listed are on the rise, none of them have a long history of success like what we have...if I'm looking at the records right, there's only one conference championship won between all of them (UAB last year)

In regards to the TV market argument, when you compile up the markets App resides in, that would put us about 6th or 7th among their current members, and geographically there is not an AAC team through the I-85 corridor so one could maybe make an argument that having App in the conference would open up fans of both App and the other conference teams who reside in Atlanta, Charlotte, Triad and RTP who don't want to have drive all the way out to Greenville, Memphis or Cincinnati to catch a game. Yeah, Georgia State or Charlotte could also make that claim, but we have them beat in terms of butts in the seats and eyes on the screens...in fact our attendance averages are better than all four of those teams (in 2018 we were ranked #86, all the others are in the 120's.

Hopefully we get a look, if not we'll probably just have to settle for Boise State East. Like I said before one way to make a statement is pack BOA full with black and gold when we play ECU and show the AAC how well the App State fan base travels to neutral sites and how big of a presence the team has in the #23 television market.

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here, I’d just remind you that these were all the similar arguments we made when we got ignored by CUSA in favor of ODU & UNCC when they both had like 2 bad FCS seasons under their belt.

I’ll hope for the best but again, I think we’ve seen how this kind of thing already works.

This is true, but the flipside of that is that is also showed the limitations of the CUSA market model. UNCC and ODU haven’t done anything in b-ball or football and the CUSA has a severely degraded tv contract, which is due to their small fan bases overall.

Advents like ESPN+, cord cutting, ESPN3, NBCSN,etc have been a net boon for App. Now the actual size of your fan base matters, not just the amount of people living in the same zip code of the school.

[BeauFoster]

Bringing tons of fans to away games (both in and out of conference), helps strengthen our case for any conference or bowl invite. It's not the only thing that matters, but it's a small part of the overall. Showing out in Chapel Hill, Columbia, and Atlanta this year cannot go unnoticed (though it may never make a big difference).

[ah59396]

I just don’t see it.

Our athletic funding is nowhere near competitive with the rest of the AAC.

Most AAC schools are large market/commuter type institutions.

Houston
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Memphis
SMU
Temple
Tulane
Tulsa

All in large cities.

ECU & Navy the only outliers. Greenville still has 100k people and Annapolis is a borderline suburb of DC.


I’d love it, I just don’t see it.


If I had to bet, I’d put my money on one of:

ODU
Ga State
UNCC
UAB

With probably Ga State leading the pack. Especially if they keep improving in football over the next couple years. They’d fill a giant void in Georgia. Huge enrollment. Good basketball. Massive stadium.

Hope I’m wrong.

If the AAC is determined to be the 6th member of the Power 5, they're not going to add any of those teams...they're going to want heavy hitting football programs which boost up the quality of the conference's strength. And granted three out of the four teams you listed are on the rise, none of them have a long history of success like what we have...if I'm looking at the records right, there's only one conference championship won between all of them (UAB last year)

In regards to the TV market argument, when you compile up the markets App resides in, that would put us about 6th or 7th among their current members, and geographically there is not an AAC team through the I-85 corridor so one could maybe make an argument that having App in the conference would open up fans of both App and the other conference teams who reside in Atlanta, Charlotte, Triad and RTP who don't want to have drive all the way out to Greenville, Memphis or Cincinnati to catch a game. Yeah, Georgia State or Charlotte could also make that claim, but we have them beat in terms of butts in the seats and eyes on the screens...in fact our attendance averages are better than all four of those teams (in 2018 we were ranked #86, all the others are in the 120's.

Hopefully we get a look, if not we'll probably just have to settle for Boise State East. Like I said before one way to make a statement is pack BOA full with black and gold when we play ECU and show the AAC how well the App State fan base travels to neutral sites and how big of a presence the team has in the #23 television market.

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here, I’d just remind you that these were all the similar arguments we made when we got ignored by CUSA in favor of ODU & UNCC when they both had like 2 bad FCS seasons under their belt.

I’ll hope for the best but again, I think we’ve seen how this kind of thing already works.

This is true, but the flipside of that is that is also showed the limitations of the CUSA market model. UNCC and ODU haven’t done anything in b-ball or football and the CUSA has a severely degraded tv contract, which is due to their small fan bases overall.

Advents like ESPN+, cord cutting, ESPN3, NBCSN,etc have been a net boon for App. Now the actual size of your fan base matters, not just the amount of people living in the same zip code of the school.

This is a great point and something I had not considered. Online social interaction scores mean a lot more now too.

[appstatealum]

Hard to believe (not really though) that we have two active threads with discussions- one regarding joining the AAC and one about going back to FCS. Talk about two extremes.

The latter one is absolutely ridiculous

[App91]

There is only one thing that we as fans can do and that is to increase Athletic Dept. revenue by dramatically increasing Fundraising. If we can show we can do this, than anything is possible. But, with current budgets and revenue a move to the AAC will not happen.

[NashvilleNeer]

Would love to go to the AAC just because of the TV money. They're getting $7 million a year while the Sun Belt is getting $400k a year. The Mountain West is about to get a better tv deal, reading it should be over $2 million per school and the MAC is paying out about $700k a year per school. Conference USA is about $500k per school, would jumping to one of those really help? Would anyone be in favor of going to the MAC or ConfUSA before trying to go to the AAC? I do believe we have a shot and don't believe for a second that they'd take ODU over us. I could see Charlotte, but they'd have to really get their program going, in my opinion, before they ever really considered them. It's just a shame though about the cotton bowl miss, our program could REALLY use that huge bowl payout.

[hotrod2001]

Agree, the upcoming ECU contracted games will be a good opportunity for us to show off for the self proclaimed "P6" conference.

Especially if we beat them and beat them significantly.

We need to do to them what they try to do with UCF and the P5's. Except a little less obnoxious. A big, fat "is that all you got?" could help get the point across, lol.



I do agree with a lot of posters here too...with the stadium enhancements going in swing, a new HC in place and a lot of starters hopefully returning next year, the staff and fan base really needs to turn their attention to the Yosef Club and donations. I think there should be some creative campaigns and methods to help out the department outside of the conventional giving model.

I mean not to bring politics into it, but look at Bernie Sanders. The man has raised millions of dollars for his two presidential campaigns all the while bragging that the bulk of his donations were of an average of $27. If you could capture that lightning in a bottle that his and other campaigns have managed to do and use it for a more meaningful cause than an election bid, maybe we can move the needle in that area. In a past discussion I suggested maybe we could do a simple brick campaign for this Jerry Moore Plaza they're building. I found similar projects at other schools and you could easily net $150k if you simply did $10 brick donations. Something more tangible than just a welcome letter and a sticker, something people could be a part of and physically see in play.

Nickel and diming is a good way to raise funds. Verzion and Spectrum have proven that, lol.

[ericsaid]

Would love to go to the AAC just because of the TV money. They're getting $7 million a year while the Sun Belt is getting $400k a year. The Mountain West is about to get a better tv deal, reading it should be over $2 million per school and the MAC is paying out about $700k a year per school. Conference USA is about $500k per school, would jumping to one of those really help? Would anyone be in favor of going to the MAC or ConfUSA before trying to go to the AAC? I do believe we have a shot and don't believe for a second that they'd take ODU over us. I could see Charlotte, but they'd have to really get their program going, in my opinion, before they ever really considered them. It's just a shame though about the cotton bowl miss, our program could REALLY use that huge bowl payout.

C-USA's primary interest would be geographic. I don't think that the quality of play in that conference is better than the Sun Belt. I'd also balk at the idea of being in a 14-team conference, which is what the C-USA looks to do.

[APPdiesel]

So many of us complain about geography and travel in the Sunbelt. Would everyone suddenly stop complaining about AAC geography?

As of now, Conway, Atlanta, and Statesboro are all day-trip driveable. In the AAC we'd only have 1 day-trip conference mate in ECU.

Does being in a better conference and the university getting more money justify and negate those concerns?

[APPdiesel]

Nashville...you and a bunch of Charlotte posters all say "if we/they can get the program going" like they can just flip a switch and suddenly get all the pieces in place. They can get bowl eligible, but can they do it year over year? Can they book P5s to their home stadium? Can they beat P5s? Can they average 25,000+ attendance? All of those things take years to accomplish. The AAC can be patient but they don't want to be that patient.

(Not calling you out specifically just using your post as an example)

[citroknight]

Nashville...you and a bunch of Charlotte posters all say "if we can get our program going" like they can just flip a switch and suddenly get all the pieces in place. They can get bowl eligible, but can they do it year over year. They can get bowl eligible but can they book P5s to their home stadium. Can they beat P5s? Can they average 25,000+ attendance? All of those things take years to accomplish. The AAC can be patient but they don't want to be that patient.

Charlotte, ODU, and Georgia State all have huge potential. But they're all like 20 years away at the earliest from building the track record and following needed to make them worthy considerations.

[APPdiesel]

Charlotte, ODU, and Georgia State all have huge potential. But they're all like 20 years away at the earliest from building the track record and following needed to make them worthy considerations.

You replied before I had the chance to edit and clarify my point but you are absolutely right. The AAC doesn't have 20 years to see a return on their invitation nor do they want to risk the black eye or set back of inviting the wrong program. I don't see them coveting programs with one bowl elibile season.

[ericsaid]

Nashville...you and a bunch of Charlotte posters all say "if we can get our program going" like they can just flip a switch and suddenly get all the pieces in place. They can get bowl eligible, but can they do it year over year. They can get bowl eligible but can they book P5s to their home stadium. Can they beat P5s? Can they average 25,000+ attendance? All of those things take years to accomplish. The AAC can be patient but they don't want to be that patient.

Charlotte, ODU, and Georgia State all have huge potential. But they're all like 20 years away at the earliest from building the track record and following needed to make them worthy considerations.

And we are about to get rid of our track! Meanwhile the rest are building them!

All in all, I believe that Aresco and the AAC would be wise to delve deeper into the "market" numbers including developing an understanding of the region within which a program lay. App State, while "isolated" in terms of location, has access to Charlotte, Winston-Salem/Greensboro, and the Triangle. If market in terms of TV is also the issue, I can't say I understand that either because the games are broadcast nationally, not regionally. Even so, App State has a statewide appeal rather than simply being relegated to "Boone".

P.S: My biggest pet peave in watching a national broadcast of App games is when they say "look at all of these people who made it down from Boone". News flash, 85% of the App people in the stands didn't travel from Boone. They traveled from areas that most App people recognize to be their market.

[TheMoody1]

A link to where alumni live.

http://www.alumni.appstate.edu/s/1727/i ... 2&pgid=624

[TheAppalachianState]

Nashville...you and a bunch of Charlotte posters all say "if we can get our program going" like they can just flip a switch and suddenly get all the pieces in place. They can get bowl eligible, but can they do it year over year. They can get bowl eligible but can they book P5s to their home stadium. Can they beat P5s? Can they average 25,000+ attendance? All of those things take years to accomplish. The AAC can be patient but they don't want to be that patient.

Charlotte, ODU, and Georgia State all have huge potential. But they're all like 20 years away at the earliest from building the track record and following needed to make them worthy considerations.

And we are about to get rid of our track! Meanwhile the rest are building them!

All in all, I believe that Aresco and the AAC would be wise to delve deeper into the "market" numbers including developing an understanding of the region within which a program lay. App State, while "isolated" in terms of location, has access to Charlotte, Winston-Salem/Greensboro, and the Triangle. If market in terms of TV is also the issue, I can't say I understand that either because the games are broadcast nationally, not regionally. Even so, App State has a statewide appeal rather than simply being relegated to "Boone".

P.S: My biggest pet peave in watching a national broadcast of App games is when they say "look at all of these people who made it down from Boone". News flash, 85% of the App people in the stands didn't travel from Boone. They traveled from areas that most App people recognize to be their market.

That’s what drives me nuts too lol, “They drove down the mountain”... no we didn’t lol. Most of us, at least from what I’ve seen, live in Charlotte. I see App stickers EVERYWHERE in Charlotte.

[appstate77]

Same for Myrtle Beach area. A bunch of Black and Gold here.

[APP12]

I just don’t see it.

Our athletic funding is nowhere near competitive with the rest of the AAC.

Most AAC schools are large market/commuter type institutions.

Houston
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Memphis
SMU
Temple
Tulane
Tulsa

All in large cities.

ECU & Navy the only outliers. Greenville still has 100k people and Annapolis is a borderline suburb of DC.


I’d love it, I just don’t see it.


If I had to bet, I’d put my money on one of:

ODU
Ga State
UNCC
UAB

With probably Ga State leading the pack. Especially if they keep improving in football over the next couple years. They’d fill a giant void in Georgia. Huge enrollment. Good basketball. Massive stadium.

Hope I’m wrong.

I think this post sums it up perfectly. Would most of us like to be in a bigger and better conference? Sure. The analytics just do not add up. I think some of these things could/will change after the next realignment, but for now our best bet is to take care of business. Play our schedule, enjoy our success, and let it play out. If we maintain our “1-0” football culture, this stuff will take care of itself.

I would also agree that every single penny donated to the Yosef Club makes a big difference. Grassroots campaigns to increase the footprint of dollars raised with our alumni base is how we make a difference here and now.

[APP12]

Same for Myrtle Beach area. A bunch of Black and Gold here.

Can confirm as my wife and I both contribute to the Myrtle Beach area alumni census.

[ericsaid]

A link to where alumni live.

http://www.alumni.appstate.edu/s/1727/i ... 2&pgid=624

So you have the three largest markets in NC represented as having the most App State graduates with Mecklenburg, Wake, and Guilford.

[appstatealum]

So many of us complain about geography and travel in the Sunbelt. Would everyone suddenly stop complaining about AAC geography?

As of now, Conway, Atlanta, and Statesboro are all day-trip driveable. In the AAC we'd only have 1 day-trip conference mate in ECU.

Does being in a better conference and the university getting more money justify and negate those concerns?

Yes.

You are in Greenville, which has a nice centric location to the schools you listed, but I'd think our largest portions of alumni are in the WS/Greensboro and Charlotte area and while those trips can be "day trips", most are overnighter anyway. This year marks the most away games I've ever been to over my 19 years of following the team, but that was mainly due to the proximity of the P5 match ups. I'd certainly budget to make 2 road trips/a championship/and a bowl game each year if we were in the AAC and playing significant games against Houston/UCF/Navy/SMU/Memphis/Cinci. The ECU game would be an automatic and then pick another one to spend a weekend.