Early, but let's do it now

[AppSt94]

Look, as I said, I'd prefer to just look forward and support Clark.

But if I for some reason felt compelled to go to bat for him and defend everything he's ever done, I think the approach I'd take would be: He was a first-time coach who took over at what turned out to be a tumultuous time in both college athletics and the world. Sure, he made some missteps. But he's been learning on the job, and he's a better coach and CEO than he was three years ago. And the growing pains he went through over the past few years are about to pay off with a wiser and more experienced coach who is ready to get the program back where we all want it.

Personally I would find that more reasonable than the "this is everyone's fault but his" approach, but ymmv.

Both the statement above and what some have been saying about what he inherited can be true at the same time. And both must be recognized as taking time to both learn/grow and correct the inherited issues.

[MrCraig]

My expectations are the same every season:

1. Beat the Stink
2. Go to a bowl game
3. Win a bowl game
4. Compete in the conference championship
5. Win the conference championship
6. Beat all OOC opponents
7. Go to and win a NY6 bowl game

OBVIOUSLY the last few of those are a bit unrealistic, but as long as we beat Georgia Southern, I'm not completely dissatisfied with the season. I think a good, realistic expectation right now is win a bowl game and beat the Stink. That's where my head is, so anything more than that will just be icing on the cake.

[appfanjj]

My expectations are the same every season:

1. Beat the Stink
2. Go to a bowl game
3. Win a bowl game
4. Compete in the conference championship
5. Win the conference championship
6. Beat all OOC opponents
7. Go to and win a NY6 bowl game

OBVIOUSLY the last few of those are a bit unrealistic, but as long as we beat Georgia Southern, I'm not completely dissatisfied with the season. I think a good, realistic expectation right now is win a bowl game and beat the Stink. That's where my head is, so anything more than that will just be icing on the cake.

Too early bowl projection in the Athlon magazine have us playing
Liberty in the Myrtle Beach bowl.

[Stonewall]

I don't know that I don't hate MU and JMU as much as anyone...

[311neers]

Looks like a new cinderblock wall/fence going up between the brick columns at the base of Miller Hill. Assuming for safety reasons in case of a field rush and to tie into the Brick/Masonry aesthetic of the stadium.

[AppStateNews]

Looks like a new cinderblock wall/fence going up between the brick columns at the base of Miller Hill. Assuming for safety reasons in case of a field rush and to tie into the Brick/Masonry aesthetic of the stadium.

It's all for safety. I think we all remember the ambulances flying up stadium drive after the Troy game.

[AppStateNews]

Some of the "well actually" stuff posted on this message board after problems/losses literally sounded like stuff a coaching staff would say. I've seen it before with different programs when I would call out things going bad. And it's natural. Coaches want to remain coaches (same with trainers, staffers, etc), so they filter word out to explain why bad things are happening and keep public opinion from heating their seat up.

End of the day, Clark's buyout drops from $3 million to $1 million on Dec. 1, a week after the Georgia Southern game. The number of angry rich donors needed to pay his buyout will drop on that date as well, so if he feels there's a chance of not winning championships as he's preached for 3+ years, he and the staff he hired are going to temper expectations.

So you’re telling me we’ve got a couple burner accounts in here?!

No, just people who talk to coaches/staff members on a regular basis and basically present that side of the argument.

That's fair and that's great. But you have to take what you're being told from the inside with a grain of salt. It's not like Clark would ever say "Looking back I wasn't really ready for this job. The move from position coach to head coach was a lot more than I expected. Even four years in, I'm in over my head with all the things that go into being a head coach."

To the media, he's always going to use coach speak. Every coach does. It's the only way to save face with your university, fan base, and players.

But to others he knows and trusts, he's as real as it gets. He told several of us after spring practices last year, if some players didn't unexpectedly step up, we're a maximum 7 win team. Then UNC and Texas A&M happened. So the optimism from the fan base was understandably way higher than it should have been.

A common key misconception about our roster last year was the talent. Sure, we had a decent amount of talent on the field. The problem was the depth. We had two o linemen that any other year would have had minor surgery after Troy game (I think, can't remember the exact game) and been out a 2-4 weeks. They chose against it because they knew the talent level behind them was not ready (largely due to Geep, but that's a different conversation). So, they chose to play the rest of the season at maybe 75% -- and that's a BIG maybe. Half of our first team was/still are NFL caliber talent (and some still on the team so that's a plus).

The problem was depth and leadership. And the dead horse has already been beaten way more than enough on the reasoning for that.

[EastHallApp]

Some of the "well actually" stuff posted on this message board after problems/losses literally sounded like stuff a coaching staff would say. I've seen it before with different programs when I would call out things going bad. And it's natural. Coaches want to remain coaches (same with trainers, staffers, etc), so they filter word out to explain why bad things are happening and keep public opinion from heating their seat up.

End of the day, Clark's buyout drops from $3 million to $1 million on Dec. 1, a week after the Georgia Southern game. The number of angry rich donors needed to pay his buyout will drop on that date as well, so if he feels there's a chance of not winning championships as he's preached for 3+ years, he and the staff he hired are going to temper expectations.

So you’re telling me we’ve got a couple burner accounts in here?!

No, just people who talk to coaches/staff members on a regular basis and basically present that side of the argument.

That's fair and that's great. But you have to take what you're being told from the inside with a grain of salt. It's not like Clark would ever say "Looking back I wasn't really ready for this job. The move from position coach to head coach was a lot more than I expected. Even four years in, I'm in over my head with all the things that go into being a head coach."

To the media, he's always going to use coach speak. Every coach does. It's the only way to save face with your university, fan base, and players.

But to others he knows and trusts, he's as real as it gets. He told several of us after spring practices last year, if some players didn't unexpectedly step up, we're a maximum 7 win team. Then UNC and Texas A&M happened. So the optimism from the fan base was understandably way higher than it should have been.

A common key misconception about our roster last year was the talent. Sure, we had a decent amount of talent on the field. The problem was the depth. We had two o linemen that any other year would have had minor surgery after Troy game (I think, can't remember the exact game) and been out a 2-4 weeks. They chose against it because they knew the talent level behind them was not ready (largely due to Geep, but that's a different conversation). So, they chose to play the rest of the season at maybe 75% -- and that's a BIG maybe. Half of our first team was/still are NFL caliber talent (and some still on the team so that's a plus).

The problem was depth and leadership. And the dead horse has already been beaten way more than enough on the reasoning for that.

There were definitely some talent gaps last year, even among the starters. I think the defense was actually worse - Steven Jones was pretty much the only DB I felt good about out there. We had a couple good LBs but not four, let alone a 2 deep. DE was just not productive enough.

Not a coincidence all those positions (including OL) besides LB were where we loaded up on transfers and jucos, I think.

[EastHallApp]

To the media, he's always going to use coach speak. Every coach does. It's the only way to save face with your university, fan base, and players.

But to others he knows and trusts, he's as real as it gets. He told several of us after spring practices last year, if some players didn't unexpectedly step up, we're a maximum 7 win team. Then UNC and Texas A&M happened. So the optimism from the fan base was understandably way higher than it should have been.

Let's also note that this dynamic likely isn't just Clark keeping it real with people he "knows and trusts"; it's a common PR strategy. Keep it positive in public, but feed a different narrative to people you know will leak it online to try and level-set expectations among the most passionate fans.

Get all the "Clark would never say this publicly, but..." stuff out there without actually having to say it publicly yourself.

[WVAPPeer]

"We had a couple good LBs but not four, let alone a 2 deep. "

We did have solid LBs starting the season - 3 of them never finished the season

[T-Dog]

Looks like a new cinderblock wall/fence going up between the brick columns at the base of Miller Hill. Assuming for safety reasons in case of a field rush and to tie into the Brick/Masonry aesthetic of the stadium.

Yeah the fences caused a crush after the Troy game last year. I was told about a dozen injuries, including a dislocated ankle and someone who got impaled slipping while jumping over the fence. A security guard also required medical attention.

I've never seen so many people rush the field in such a short period of time. I guestimate 5,000 people in like 60 seconds.

I hated those iron fences with spikes at the top. They're fine for 10+ feet high, but 3-4 feet was a disaster waiting to happen. All the iron fences were removed post-Troy and plastic barriers were in place the rest of the reason.

Yosef Club was told a "nice, four-foot high brick wall"

[311neers]

Looks like a new cinderblock wall/fence going up between the brick columns at the base of Miller Hill. Assuming for safety reasons in case of a field rush and to tie into the Brick/Masonry aesthetic of the stadium.

Yeah the fences caused a crush after the Troy game last year. I was told about a dozen injuries, including a dislocated ankle and someone who got impaled slipping while jumping over the fence. A security guard also required medical attention.

I've never seen so many people rush the field in such a short period of time. I guestimate 5,000 people in like 60 seconds.

I hated those iron fences with spikes at the top. They're fine for 10+ feet high, but 3-4 feet was a disaster waiting to happen. All the iron fences were removed post-Troy and plastic barriers were in place the rest of the reason.

Yosef Club was told a "nice, four-foot high brick wall"

Yup, was a major hazard. Plenty of recruits photos from this past weekend show the 4’ Masonry wall in the background (Looks to be block” wall) under construction. Hopefully they will brick facade it.

[appgrad95&97]

Some of the "well actually" stuff posted on this message board after problems/losses literally sounded like stuff a coaching staff would say. I've seen it before with different programs when I would call out things going bad. And it's natural. Coaches want to remain coaches (same with trainers, staffers, etc), so they filter word out to explain why bad things are happening and keep public opinion from heating their seat up.

End of the day, Clark's buyout drops from $3 million to $1 million on Dec. 1, a week after the Georgia Southern game. The number of angry rich donors needed to pay his buyout will drop on that date as well, so if he feels there's a chance of not winning championships as he's preached for 3+ years, he and the staff he hired are going to temper expectations.

So you’re telling me we’ve got a couple burner accounts in here?!

No, just people who talk to coaches/staff members on a regular basis and basically present that side of the argument.

That's fair and that's great. But you have to take what you're being told from the inside with a grain of salt. It's not like Clark would ever say "Looking back I wasn't really ready for this job. The move from position coach to head coach was a lot more than I expected. Even four years in, I'm in over my head with all the things that go into being a head coach."

To the media, he's always going to use coach speak. Every coach does. It's the only way to save face with your university, fan base, and players.

But to others he knows and trusts, he's as real as it gets. He told several of us after spring practices last year, if some players didn't unexpectedly step up, we're a maximum 7 win team. Then UNC and Texas A&M happened. So the optimism from the fan base was understandably way higher than it should have been.

A common key misconception about our roster last year was the talent. Sure, we had a decent amount of talent on the field. The problem was the depth. We had two o linemen that any other year would have had minor surgery after Troy game (I think, can't remember the exact game) and been out a 2-4 weeks. They chose against it because they knew the talent level behind them was not ready (largely due to Geep, but that's a different conversation). So, they chose to play the rest of the season at maybe 75% -- and that's a BIG maybe. Half of our first team was/still are NFL caliber talent (and some still on the team so that's a plus).

The problem was depth and leadership. And the dead horse has already been beaten way more than enough on the reasoning for that.

I am going to let this go after this: We didn't have the depth or leadership to hold on to a 25 point lead v. JMU or beat Texas St.? We win those two games and we finish 8-4, probably loose a bowl game, but we go. Those two games turned an okay season into a bad one. I had questions about Clark from the beginning, but win those two games and I'd have to be a lot less critical now.

[WVAPPeer]

He was an INCH from beating UNC and beat TX A&M on the and beat the SBC champion - all of those were early season so if can't equate the lack of depth regarding later loses then there is no reason to keep stating the facts

[WVAPPeer]

And didn't Jerry Moore blow a 28 point lead at JMU with Armanti? - what does that mean to you? - I'll tell you what it means - It's football and every team and every coach has seen big leads disappear into a loss - It has happened once to Coach Clark, which means it is not anything more than a bad day of football -

[Yosef10]

Some of the "well actually" stuff posted on this message board after problems/losses literally sounded like stuff a coaching staff would say. I've seen it before with different programs when I would call out things going bad. And it's natural. Coaches want to remain coaches (same with trainers, staffers, etc), so they filter word out to explain why bad things are happening and keep public opinion from heating their seat up.

End of the day, Clark's buyout drops from $3 million to $1 million on Dec. 1, a week after the Georgia Southern game. The number of angry rich donors needed to pay his buyout will drop on that date as well, so if he feels there's a chance of not winning championships as he's preached for 3+ years, he and the staff he hired are going to temper expectations.

So you’re telling me we’ve got a couple burner accounts in here?!

No, just people who talk to coaches/staff members on a regular basis and basically present that side of the argument.

That's fair and that's great. But you have to take what you're being told from the inside with a grain of salt. It's not like Clark would ever say "Looking back I wasn't really ready for this job. The move from position coach to head coach was a lot more than I expected. Even four years in, I'm in over my head with all the things that go into being a head coach."

To the media, he's always going to use coach speak. Every coach does. It's the only way to save face with your university, fan base, and players.

But to others he knows and trusts, he's as real as it gets. He told several of us after spring practices last year, if some players didn't unexpectedly step up, we're a maximum 7 win team. Then UNC and Texas A&M happened. So the optimism from the fan base was understandably way higher than it should have been.

A common key misconception about our roster last year was the talent. Sure, we had a decent amount of talent on the field. The problem was the depth. We had two o linemen that any other year would have had minor surgery after Troy game (I think, can't remember the exact game) and been out a 2-4 weeks. They chose against it because they knew the talent level behind them was not ready (largely due to Geep, but that's a different conversation). So, they chose to play the rest of the season at maybe 75% -- and that's a BIG maybe. Half of our first team was/still are NFL caliber talent (and some still on the team so that's a plus).

The problem was depth and leadership. And the dead horse has already been beaten way more than enough on the reasoning for that.

And the problem with you guys who say depth was the problem, which I’m not saying it wasn’t, but the issue is you folks seemingly give Clark a free pass on it. It’s takes 1 off season to completely flip a roster now days, and that’s been the case every season Clark has been at the helm. He couldn’t see those depth issues coming in 2021 and plan accordingly? 2022‘s roster was Clark’s roster to own, full stop.

And I feel like some gets lost in translation here, like those of us that call this stuff out are unrealistic about what App football can be. I don’t have as big of an issue with App football going 6-6 as I do with guys who come to message boards and tell us that what is 100% Clark’s responsibility is somehow not his fault and lay it at the feet of a coach last seen in 2019. And what irks me and others even more is knowing that if Clark wasn’t you guys friend, your commentary would be much different on the matter.

[Yosef10]

We will see the turn for the better this season with 2024 being the return to prominence.

Thing is, if Clark loses one game, the negative nancys on here will want his head on a spike in front of KBS.

If we start 1-3, will you blame Drink. That's all I want to know.

Depends what the issues are causing the losses. If it's players making dumb mistakes, no. If it's out athleted, Drink played a big role in that. If it's bad play calling, no. If it's because of immaturity in specific position groups, Drink played a big role in that.

Our current head coach is entering his fourth season. He fully owns the roster now. For better or worse. Hopefully better.

No, he doesn't. He's only signed 3 classes he's recruited. He has two years of players that are his recruits with any kind of experience. And most of those were redshirted last year to help fix the unbalanced classes created by Drink.

I feel like you think because you have some rinky dink website you think what you say is fact. Listen to any CFB media worth their salt and they’ll tell you in this era it’s the head coaches roster by year 2. Sorry, but no matter how often you post this it will never be the truth.

[WVAPPeer]

So you’re telling me we’ve got a couple burner accounts in here?!

No, just people who talk to coaches/staff members on a regular basis and basically present that side of the argument.

That's fair and that's great. But you have to take what you're being told from the inside with a grain of salt. It's not like Clark would ever say "Looking back I wasn't really ready for this job. The move from position coach to head coach was a lot more than I expected. Even four years in, I'm in over my head with all the things that go into being a head coach."

To the media, he's always going to use coach speak. Every coach does. It's the only way to save face with your university, fan base, and players.

But to others he knows and trusts, he's as real as it gets. He told several of us after spring practices last year, if some players didn't unexpectedly step up, we're a maximum 7 win team. Then UNC and Texas A&M happened. So the optimism from the fan base was understandably way higher than it should have been.

A common key misconception about our roster last year was the talent. Sure, we had a decent amount of talent on the field. The problem was the depth. We had two o linemen that any other year would have had minor surgery after Troy game (I think, can't remember the exact game) and been out a 2-4 weeks. They chose against it because they knew the talent level behind them was not ready (largely due to Geep, but that's a different conversation). So, they chose to play the rest of the season at maybe 75% -- and that's a BIG maybe. Half of our first team was/still are NFL caliber talent (and some still on the team so that's a plus).

The problem was depth and leadership. And the dead horse has already been beaten way more than enough on the reasoning for that.

And the problem with you guys who say depth was the problem, which I’m not saying it wasn’t, but the issue is you folks seemingly give Clark a free pass on it. It’s takes 1 off season to completely flip a roster now days, and that’s been the case every season Clark has been at the helm. He couldn’t see those depth issues coming in 2021 and plan accordingly? 2022‘s roster was Clark’s roster to own, full stop.

And I feel like some gets lost in translation here, like those of us that call this stuff out are unrealistic about what App football can be. I don’t have as big of an issue with App football going 6-6 as I do with guys who come to message boards and tell us that what is 100% Clark’s responsibility is somehow not his fault and lay it at the feet of a coach last seen in 2019. And what irks me and others even more is knowing that if Clark wasn’t you guys friend, your commentary would be much different on the matter.

Not saying you said this about me, but I have not blamed previous coaches, I agree that there were problems but I have never said it Drink's fault -
And secondly, I have never met Coach Clark, have never spoken to him, he is not my friend BUT he is West BY GOD Virginian so I know he is a good man

[AppStateNews]

So you’re telling me we’ve got a couple burner accounts in here?!

No, just people who talk to coaches/staff members on a regular basis and basically present that side of the argument.

That's fair and that's great. But you have to take what you're being told from the inside with a grain of salt. It's not like Clark would ever say "Looking back I wasn't really ready for this job. The move from position coach to head coach was a lot more than I expected. Even four years in, I'm in over my head with all the things that go into being a head coach."

To the media, he's always going to use coach speak. Every coach does. It's the only way to save face with your university, fan base, and players.

But to others he knows and trusts, he's as real as it gets. He told several of us after spring practices last year, if some players didn't unexpectedly step up, we're a maximum 7 win team. Then UNC and Texas A&M happened. So the optimism from the fan base was understandably way higher than it should have been.

A common key misconception about our roster last year was the talent. Sure, we had a decent amount of talent on the field. The problem was the depth. We had two o linemen that any other year would have had minor surgery after Troy game (I think, can't remember the exact game) and been out a 2-4 weeks. They chose against it because they knew the talent level behind them was not ready (largely due to Geep, but that's a different conversation). So, they chose to play the rest of the season at maybe 75% -- and that's a BIG maybe. Half of our first team was/still are NFL caliber talent (and some still on the team so that's a plus).

The problem was depth and leadership. And the dead horse has already been beaten way more than enough on the reasoning for that.

And the problem with you guys who say depth was the problem, which I’m not saying it wasn’t, but the issue is you folks seemingly give Clark a free pass on it. It’s takes 1 off season to completely flip a roster now days, and that’s been the case every season Clark has been at the helm. He couldn’t see those depth issues coming in 2021 and plan accordingly? 2022‘s roster was Clark’s roster to own, full stop.

And I feel like some gets lost in translation here, like those of us that call this stuff out are unrealistic about what App football can be. I don’t have as big of an issue with App football going 6-6 as I do with guys who come to message boards and tell us that what is 100% Clark’s responsibility is somehow not his fault and lay it at the feet of a coach last seen in 2019. And what irks me and others even more is knowing that if Clark wasn’t you guys friend, your commentary would be much different on the matter.

But he didn't. Last off season he attempted to really use the portal but lost at least 5 players because of NIL funds. We didn't have any, other schools did. We have some now. And we saw how the portal (on paper) worked out this year.

And as I've said time and time again -- I agree Clark took too long to use the portal.

[AppStateNews]

If we start 1-3, will you blame Drink. That's all I want to know.

Depends what the issues are causing the losses. If it's players making dumb mistakes, no. If it's out athleted, Drink played a big role in that. If it's bad play calling, no. If it's because of immaturity in specific position groups, Drink played a big role in that.

Our current head coach is entering his fourth season. He fully owns the roster now. For better or worse. Hopefully better.

No, he doesn't. He's only signed 3 classes he's recruited. He has two years of players that are his recruits with any kind of experience. And most of those were redshirted last year to help fix the unbalanced classes created by Drink.

I feel like you think because you have some rinky dink website you think what you say is fact. Listen to any CFB media worth their salt and they’ll tell you in this era it’s the head coaches roster by year 2. Sorry, but no matter how often you post this it will never be the truth.

I don't have a website. But you clearly can't read as it clearly says I have no affiliation with the site. This used to be that person's account. There were a few former players from various sports with access. Nobody but me was using it so password changed and it's just me now.

And keep thinking that. I'm confident I know more about how the roster management and recruiting work than you do considering I've been through it - as a recruit and as a recruiter. At big schools with unlimited money, sure, it may only take 2 years to rebuild a roster. We don't have that luxury. Those big schools recruiting budget is larger than our entire budget.

Untill NIL and transfer portal, it took 5 years to balance a locker room because of redshirt years. And until this year, we had an extreme uphill battle in using the portal with literally zero NIL funds and transfers sometimes losing more than a years worth of credits -- all things Clark has no control over.

But, that's already been discussed numerous times. I don't expect you to go back to read that though since you can't even read a signature.