I've had it

[Maddog1956]

Cincinnati, APPState I would imagine money had something to do with it.

Just because it doesn't put Jerry in the best light doesn't mean it isn't true. I have no beef with Jerry and am eternally grateful that he was our coach for so long but it doesn't mean he didn't mess up from time to time like all of us.

No it doesn't and I'm sure he has made many, but no matter what the topic is it always goes back to JM didn't do something. Like saying DH was right in our hands, but for JM, meanwhile DH is at a larger school and making more money.

People are free to believe what they want but I think DH got a better offer has more credibility.

He took a job at Nevada before going to Cinn.[/quote]

And left after a year, sounds to me like JM did us a favor and saved us from having to hire two times for the same position.

[Maddog1956]

You heard wrong. Scott knew Hiller from FIU when Hiller was at Ark State. Scott set up the meeting at the coaches convention in Dallas and Hiller agreed to take the job. After two weeks Scott asked HR when Hiller would be in Boone and was told they had no record of him. Scott asked Coach Moore about it and Jerry said he forgot to follow up. Scott tried to save the deal but Hiller was offered another job and after not hearing anything from ASU took it.

It's no secret Coach Moore wasn't happy being forced to take Scott back as Associate Head Coach & OC. Some say Coach Moore didn't appreciate Scott getting involved in his business and refused to follow up on purpose. Now we have a OL coach who was going to be fired less than a year after landing in Boone. Just our luck.

Which one of these multiple opinions are we to believe?

Naturally the one that's the most detailed, hardest to prove or disapprove. Either way we would have only had him for a year...so it really doesn't matter, it all turned out good in the end.

Plus if you search online there are more! But I'm sure there is a story of how he liked it so much here that he would have stay no matter what he would have been offered ... because he liked SS so good, or that he didn't want to live up north, etc, etc. Hard to disprove a negative.

[appstfan]

There are 2-3 App grads who would have taken the OL job.
1)Mac Bryan -- was the OL/OC at Tenn-Martin---called about the job--no return call
2)Shawn Clark-- remember him
3)Scott Smouse--OL coach at Furman

[Maddog1956]

There are 2-3 App grads who would have taken the OL job.
1)Mac Bryan -- was the OL/OC at Tenn-Martin---called about the job--no return call
2)Shawn Clark-- remember him
3)Scott Smouse--OL coach at Furman

Mac Bryan - His coaching record at Pikeville was 10 wins and 22 losses, He is currently the head coach at Ooltewah High School in Ooltewah, Tennessee. I'm sure we could have got him, any college could.

Shawn Clark is in his fourth season as offensive line coach. He was named to the position Dec. 1, 2008.Given up a Purdue job?

Scott Smouse He could have been a possibility, since Furman isn't really burning it up either this year.

I'm still wondering what's wrong with Dwayne Ledford, he seemed to have a pretty good year under JM.

The Mountaineers averaged 464 yards of total offense per game last season, good for ninth nationally and nearly 74 yards more than they averaged in 2011.

Behind Ledford’s unit, Appalachian rushed for 170.3 yards per game last season, surging from 55th to 39th in the national rankings in the span of one season.

The Mountaineers also surrendered just 24 sacks under Ledford’s tutelage, the sixth fewest in the nation for any team with at least 430 pass attempts.

I think his records holds up.

http://www.appstatesports.com/ViewArtic ... EASON=2013

Either way we can see what Scott does next year.

[SpeedkingATL]

In recent years I think Apps QB play made the OL look better stat wise than it probably was. Dre', JLJ (the healthy one) and Cadet (limited play) could all make a broken play turn golden. For example at the Citadel game, many of the big plays were broken plays with Dupree breaking contain and getting big yardage. On his long TD scamper, App appeared to have him trapped 10 yards behind the line only to see him break away and go for about a 40 yard TD. We are getting few of those this year. I also think that is why when App played Maine, Nova and ISU and lost early in the playoffs, they struggled against the better DL's those teams had.

This year plays appear to develop much slower and the OL isn't able to sustain blocks long enough to be effective. Indecisive QB play makes it worse. Cam is mobile but certainly doesn't have the burst of Dre, Cadet, or a healthy JLJ, much less AE. App doesn't have a vertical passing game this year either and that is also due to the above. (that also puts more defenders closer to the line of scrimmage making it even tougher to run the ball or make yardage on bubble screens limiting our big plays to wheel routes which Cox turns into big gainers pretty much on his own (with some credit to WR's that do block).

I'm no expert but all the one back sets also allows the defense to key on one guy, especially since Cox has become THE guy on our offense that can make plays consistently.

OL and QB play must improve going forward and much of that comes down to coaching and preparation.

[bcoach]

In recent years I think Apps QB play made the OL look better stat wise than it probably was. Dre', JLJ (the healthy one) and Cadet (limited play) could all make a broken play turn golden. For example at the Citadel game, many of the big plays were broken plays with Dupree breaking contain and getting big yardage. On his long TD scamper, App appeared to have him trapped 10 yards behind the line only to see him break away and go for about a 40 yard TD. We are getting few of those this year. I also think that is why when App played Maine, Nova and ISU and lost early in the playoffs, they struggled against the better DL's those teams had.

This year plays appear to develop much slower and the OL isn't able to sustain blocks long enough to be effective. Indecisive QB play makes it worse. Cam is mobile but certainly doesn't have the burst of Dre, Cadet, or a healthy JLJ, much less AE. App doesn't have a vertical passing game this year either and that is also due to the above. (that also puts more defenders closer to the line of scrimmage making it even tougher to run the ball or make yardage on bubble screens limiting our big plays to wheel routes which Cox turns into big gainers pretty much on his own (with some credit to WR's that do block).

I'm no expert but all the one back sets also allows the defense to key on one guy, especially since Cox has become THE guy on our offense that can make plays consistently.

OL and QB play must improve going forward and much of that comes down to coaching and preparation.

and S&C coaching

[JCline0429]

In recent years I think Apps QB play made the OL look better stat wise than it probably was. Dre', JLJ (the healthy one) and Cadet (limited play) could all make a broken play turn golden. For example at the Citadel game, many of the big plays were broken plays with Dupree breaking contain and getting big yardage. On his long TD scamper, App appeared to have him trapped 10 yards behind the line only to see him break away and go for about a 40 yard TD. We are getting few of those this year. I also think that is why when App played Maine, Nova and ISU and lost early in the playoffs, they struggled against the better DL's those teams had.

This year plays appear to develop much slower and the OL isn't able to sustain blocks long enough to be effective. Indecisive QB play makes it worse. Cam is mobile but certainly doesn't have the burst of Dre, Cadet, or a healthy JLJ, much less AE. App doesn't have a vertical passing game this year either and that is also due to the above. (that also puts more defenders closer to the line of scrimmage making it even tougher to run the ball or make yardage on bubble screens limiting our big plays to wheel routes which Cox turns into big gainers pretty much on his own (with some credit to WR's that do block).

I'm no expert but all the one back sets also allows the defense to key on one guy, especially since Cox has become THE guy on our offense that can make plays consistently.

OL and QB play must improve going forward and much of that comes down to coaching and preparation.

I always wondered why AE very, very seldom praised his OL. Your first paragraph may explain that. I always felt he had a superior OL, but as I said, he seldom mentioned it.

[Maddog1956]

OL and QB play must improve going forward and much of that comes down to coaching and preparation.

I think we have lots of problems to go around and since game one I've been saying it doesn't look like the team was prepared. But why the team wasn't prepared is really hard state 100%.

Yes the HC has to take some of the responsibility as do all the coaches. But was they given a task that failure was the only option and did the best they could with it, I don't know. That's why I wouldn't call for anyone to be fired at this point (no matter what I see and don't like).

Here are some of the things that could have worked against us.

1) JM debacle
2) SS first year as HC
3) SS first year as HC here
4)JLJ injury
5) New QB not ready
6) player mishaps
7) new plays and way of playing

I'm sure there are others, but I don't put recruiting (players or coaches) way up there. Frankly we are playing too bad (compared to last year) for it to be due to a few players not playing. I think some years we may have got lucky with certain players (QB's for sure) for the way play, but there isn't anyway we just have a bunch of duds on the team this year (which would be the case if it was just recruiting).

I think someone else may have said it, but we got the "perfect storm" this year, and hopefully we can turn it around.

[SpeedkingATL]

In recent years I think Apps QB play made the OL look better stat wise than it probably was. Dre', JLJ (the healthy one) and Cadet (limited play) could all make a broken play turn golden. For example at the Citadel game, many of the big plays were broken plays with Dupree breaking contain and getting big yardage. On his long TD scamper, App appeared to have him trapped 10 yards behind the line only to see him break away and go for about a 40 yard TD. We are getting few of those this year. I also think that is why when App played Maine, Nova and ISU and lost early in the playoffs, they struggled against the better DL's those teams had.

This year plays appear to develop much slower and the OL isn't able to sustain blocks long enough to be effective. Indecisive QB play makes it worse. Cam is mobile but certainly doesn't have the burst of Dre, Cadet, or a healthy JLJ, much less AE. App doesn't have a vertical passing game this year either and that is also due to the above. (that also puts more defenders closer to the line of scrimmage making it even tougher to run the ball or make yardage on bubble screens limiting our big plays to wheel routes which Cox turns into big gainers pretty much on his own (with some credit to WR's that do block).

I'm no expert but all the one back sets also allows the defense to key on one guy, especially since Cox has become THE guy on our offense that can make plays consistently.

OL and QB play must improve going forward and much of that comes down to coaching and preparation.

I always wondered why AE very, very seldom praised his OL. Your first paragraph may explain that. I always felt he had a superior OL, but as I said, he seldom mentioned it.

I think the OL's AE played behind were actually pretty darn good and had more speed and experience than the current group. That said, AE could take a crease or a broken play and take it to the house anytime.

[WVAPPeer]

OL and QB play must improve going forward and much of that comes down to coaching and preparation.

I think we have lots of problems to go around and since game one I've been saying it doesn't look like the team was prepared. But why the team wasn't prepared is really hard state 100%.

Yes the HC has to take some of the responsibility as do all the coaches. But was they given a task that failure was the only option and did the best they could with it, I don't know. That's why I wouldn't call for anyone to be fired at this point (no matter what I see and don't like).

Here are some of the things that could have worked against us.

1) JM debacle
2) SS first year as HC
3) SS first year as HC here
4)JLJ injury
5) New QB not ready
6) player mishaps
7) new plays and way of playing

I'm sure there are others, but I don't put recruiting (players or coaches) way up there. Frankly we are playing too bad (compared to last year) for it to be due to a few players not playing. I think some years we may have got lucky with certain players (QB's for sure) for the way play, but there isn't anyway we just have a bunch of duds on the team this year (which would be the case if it was just recruiting).

I think someone else may have said it, but we got the "perfect storm" this year, and hopefully we can turn it around.

I think all you list are accurate - I would add this, and to me it has always been at or near the top -
*** No ultimate goals to play for
As my close buddies on here can verify - I said before the season began that if we started off strong and won early the team could ride that BUT if we had early losses it could be a long year --- thru high school and now especially the jrs and srs have played for conference championships and the playoffs. We've had some bad games over the years but the comeback for the team was always - Hey, we can still win the SoCon and/or make the playoffs - 8 of 9 SoCon Championships and 8 straight playoff berths --- Not this year and it shows ---

[Maddog1956]

I think we have lots of problems to go around and since game one I've been saying it doesn't look like the team was prepared. But why the team wasn't prepared is really hard state 100%.

Yes the HC has to take some of the responsibility as do all the coaches. But was they given a task that failure was the only option and did the best they could with it, I don't know. That's why I wouldn't call for anyone to be fired at this point (no matter what I see and don't like).

Here are some of the things that could have worked against us.

1) JM debacle
2) SS first year as HC
3) SS first year as HC here
4)JLJ injury
5) New QB not ready
6) player mishaps
7) new plays and way of playing

I'm sure there are others, but I don't put recruiting (players or coaches) way up there. Frankly we are playing too bad (compared to last year) for it to be due to a few players not playing. I think some years we may have got lucky with certain players (QB's for sure) for the way play, but there isn't anyway we just have a bunch of duds on the team this year (which would be the case if it was just recruiting).

I think someone else may have said it, but we got the "perfect storm" this year, and hopefully we can turn it around.

I think all you list are accurate - I would add this, and to me it has always been at or near the top -
*** No ultimate goals to play for
As my close buddies on here can verify - I said before the season began that if we started off strong and won early the team could ride that BUT if we had early losses it could be a long year --- thru high school and now especially the jrs and srs have played for conference championships and the playoffs. We've had some bad games over the years but the comeback for the team was always - Hey, we can still win the SoCon and/or make the playoffs - 8 of 9 SoCon Championships and 8 straight playoff berths --- Not this year and it shows ---

I don't know, I would think winning would be good enough, but who knows...maybe it lead to practice and being taken seriously, etc...I think it certainly could have an affect.

[Kgfish]

There are 2-3 App grads who would have taken the OL job.
1)Mac Bryan -- was the OL/OC at Tenn-Martin---called about the job--no return call
2)Shawn Clark-- remember him
3)Scott Smouse--OL coach at Furman

Mac Bryan - His coaching record at Pikeville was 10 wins and 22 losses, He is currently the head coach at Ooltewah High School in Ooltewah, Tennessee. I'm sure we could have got him, any college could.

Shawn Clark is in his fourth season as offensive line coach. He was named to the position Dec. 1, 2008.Given up a Purdue job?

Scott Smouse He could have been a possibility, since Furman isn't really burning it up either this year.

I'm still wondering what's wrong with Dwayne Ledford, he seemed to have a pretty good year under JM.

The Mountaineers averaged 464 yards of total offense per game last season, good for ninth nationally and nearly 74 yards more than they averaged in 2011.

Behind Ledford’s unit, Appalachian rushed for 170.3 yards per game last season, surging from 55th to 39th in the national rankings in the span of one season.

The Mountaineers also surrendered just 24 sacks under Ledford’s tutelage, the sixth fewest in the nation for any team with at least 430 pass attempts.

I think his records holds up.

http://www.appstatesports.com/ViewArtic ... EASON=2013

Either way we can see what Scott does next year.

Nice job of cherry picking.

For the complete story on Mac Bryan go to zoominfo.com/p/Mac-Bryan/111495906.

Shawn Clark knew Darrell Hazell was going to fired and he agreed to come back to ASU.

Highly doubtful Ledford or Jones comes back next season.

[asutrnr81]

I think this comes down to something very simple:

JLJ is hurt/not the same.

KB had the same injury and was not the starting QB for a reason.

The other KB was just...not smart

LH is a great kid but he is not a D-1 QB

Past that unless we are going to burn a RS we do not have a person to pull the trigger.

[Maddog1956]

Nice job of cherry picking.

For the complete story on Mac Bryan go to zoominfo.com/p/Mac-Bryan/111495906.

Shawn Clark knew Darrell Hazell was going to fired and he agreed to come back to ASU.

Highly doubtful Ledford or Jones comes back next season.[/quote]

Wasn't cherry picking, there were three names given and I said why I don't think any would have made any difference this season. Maybe I'm wrong, I'd like to hear why anyone thinks they would have been better, based on their record.

We'll see if Shawn Clark comes back then next year. If he was willing to leave purdue before he should be again. Otherwise I'll stand by my statement that he wasn't given up a job at purdue. But then again he may be looking for a job next year since purdue is 1-6, they average about 12 points per game.

Still don't see anything impressive about Mac Bryan, coaching here and there (some success at Lees McRae) and now coaching high school. Nothing wrong with that, bless his heart, I hope he loves it, but nothing saying he can lead a FBS o-line.

My point is that I'm sure there are plenty of people that we could have got, but there are also plenty that on paper at least don't look as good as who we have or are at bigger schools making more money and would not have come here anyway.

And before naming every player that has played at APP, remember that usually the best players don't make good coaches (please don't name every exception, I did say usually), usually its the bench sitting player that becomes the best coach. They have heard the coaching and seen what happens with different plays. IMHO

But you might be right about Ledford not coming back, I don't think anyones job is safe after this season.

[bcoach]

Nice job of cherry picking.

For the complete story on Mac Bryan go to zoominfo.com/p/Mac-Bryan/111495906.

Shawn Clark knew Darrell Hazell was going to fired and he agreed to come back to ASU.

Highly doubtful Ledford or Jones comes back next season.

Wasn't cherry picking, there were three names given and I said why I don't think any would have made any difference this season. Maybe I'm wrong, I'd like to hear why anyone thinks they would have been better, based on their record.

We'll see if Shawn Clark comes back then next year. If he was willing to leave purdue before he should be again. Otherwise I'll stand by my statement that he wasn't given up a job at purdue. But then again he may be looking for a job next year since purdue is 1-6, they average about 12 points per game.

Still don't see anything impressive about Mac Bryan, coaching here and there (some success at Lees McRae) and now coaching high school. Nothing wrong with that, bless his heart, I hope he loves it, but nothing saying he can lead a FBS o-line.

My point is that I'm sure there are plenty of people that we could have got, but there are also plenty that on paper at least don't look as good as who we have or are at bigger schools making more money and would not have come here anyway.

And before naming every player that has played at APP, remember that usually the best players don't make good coaches (please don't name every exception, I did say usually), usually its the bench sitting player that becomes the best coach. They have heard the coaching and seen what happens with different plays. IMHO

But you might be right about Ledford not coming back, I don't think anyones job is safe after this season.[/quote]
But where does the money come from to replace the coaches we have? there is a reason we have who we have in most cases. Go to there bios and tell me we have a FBS staff or for that matter a top 5 FCS staff. It will take money to change that.

[Maddog1956]

But where does the money come from to replace the coaches we have? there is a reason we have who we have in most cases. Go to there bios and tell me we have a FBS staff or for that matter a top 5 FCS staff. It will take money to change that.

I don't know how much we pay by comparison, but I imagine it's a lot like players...to be successful like we were the HC has to id talent, diamonds in the rough. I mean everyone recruits the same talent to a degree, you win national titles by finding the diamonds and polishing them perfectly.

[bcoach]

But where does the money come from to replace the coaches we have? there is a reason we have who we have in most cases. Go to there bios and tell me we have a FBS staff or for that matter a top 5 FCS staff. It will take money to change that.

I don't know how much we pay by comparison, but I imagine it's a lot like players...to be successful like we were the HC has to id talent, diamonds in the rough. I mean everyone recruits the same talent to a degree, you win national titles by finding the diamonds and polishing them perfectly.

When I look at the coaches I see some nice guys, some guys I like. what I don't see so far are diamonds maybe we need a better miner. Maybe SS needs some help in that area. I don't know. I just don't see as much of a drop off in players over the years as I do in coaches.

[MountainMan]

I just don't see as much of a drop off in players over the years as I do in coaches.

Bingo!

Maybe they develop over time, but I don't think they are there yet.

[asufan87]

Nice job of cherry picking.

For the complete story on Mac Bryan go to zoominfo.com/p/Mac-Bryan/111495906.

Shawn Clark knew Darrell Hazell was going to fired and he agreed to come back to ASU.

Highly doubtful Ledford or Jones comes back next season.

Wasn't cherry picking, there were three names given and I said why I don't think any would have made any difference this season. Maybe I'm wrong, I'd like to hear why anyone thinks they would have been better, based on their record.

We'll see if Shawn Clark comes back then next year. If he was willing to leave purdue before he should be again. Otherwise I'll stand by my statement that he wasn't given up a job at purdue. But then again he may be looking for a job next year since purdue is 1-6, they average about 12 points per game.

Still don't see anything impressive about Mac Bryan, coaching here and there (some success at Lees McRae) and now coaching high school. Nothing wrong with that, bless his heart, I hope he loves it, but nothing saying he can lead a FBS o-line.

My point is that I'm sure there are plenty of people that we could have got, but there are also plenty that on paper at least don't look as good as who we have or are at bigger schools making more money and would not have come here anyway.

And before naming every player that has played at APP, remember that usually the best players don't make good coaches (please don't name every exception, I did say usually), usually its the bench sitting player that becomes the best coach. They have heard the coaching and seen what happens with different plays. IMHO

But you might be right about Ledford not coming back, I don't think anyones job is safe after this season.

But where does the money come from to replace the coaches we have? there is a reason we have who we have in most cases. Go to there bios and tell me we have a FBS staff or for that matter a top 5 FCS staff. It will take money to change that.[/quote]

Shawn Clark left Purdue. He's currently the OL coach at Kent State.

[asutrnr81]

To All:

it is ONE Freaking Year!

NOTHING GOOD is a hAPPening.

EVERYTHING GOOD is a Process.

Give it up already.....this is killing me and I do not even play!