attendance today

[JCline0429]

This is actually pretty funny. I have been saying for years in the FBS/FCS debates that were on this board and the former MMB that we live in "the rarest of air" in the FCS. A historic combination of conditions starting with the growing, young alumni base... the decision to have 3:30 kicks, and then, of course the unheard of success starting back in the 2005 season and culminating in the 2007 win at Michigan and the 3rd national championship.

The folks somehow assumed that we'd always be king, and the dynasty lasted for a long time until about 2010, when the slide began. FCS football is a product that draws 10k every Saturday... Proven. Fact. We lived above that average for 20 years, and way, way above it for the last 8 years. 30k to watch App play Mars Hill? Come on. When it came to FCS attendance... to say we are an anomaly would be an understatement... we are a freak show.

It's natural for fans to find better things to do than drive 2-3 hours each way to watch a 2-7 team especially in a division that averages less than 10k at a ball game... but we somehow think it is a crisis. And to think that some would use this argument to somehow question the wisdom of the decision to move to FBS football just seems utterly jaded and spiteful. Our course is set gentlemen. Seeing it for what it is steals away the argument for next year, I know, but I have a lot more faith than some that this program will respond well as we progress, and the fans will too.

What's really funny is trying to spin this into some sort of FCS debate. This has absolutely nothing to do with FCS or FBS. We are going to FBS and we needed a good start to that transition. There are a ton of FBS programs around the country that draw less than 15,000 per game. There is also a nationwide trend of declining attendance. Proven. Fact. To have a season like this that gives people a reason, whatever it is, to get used to not coming to games is not the foundation we needed to lay. You're creating strawmen to try to avoid the fact that this COULD become a problem. As I said, I'm not ready to call it a problem yet, but to ignore the possibility is to have your head in the sand.

It has to do with wins and losses. No spin here. You can say there are a ton of FBS schools with 15k averages and I will give you that, but I can also show you tons of FCS teams that average 3k or less... last time I checked, that's a 12k difference worst to worst. I'm not saying that there COULD be an attendance problem, I saying that what we are seeing is totally normal given the performance on the field... not a crisis. I find it funny... the attempt to worry about "the foundation we need to lay for our transition" as if there is any linkage. If we win, they come, if we don't, they don't... but I'd rather have 15k in 1-11 season than 3k wouldn't you? We came back to earth at the right time, in my opinion. Plenty of stuff to work on the rest of the year and during the off-season that will have a renewed sense of urgency as we enter our first year as an FBS team.

Interesting viewpoint. When we first started drawing big crowds, many on here sad it wasn't winning that was doing it, it was CC replacing Roach and the gameday atmosphere he had created and that winning was secondary. They pointed to the first Coastal Carolina game before we knew wewere going to be hot.

[asu1978]

We will keep drawing crowds as long as (1) Tailgating rules (2) This university continues to grow. The winning will come back,we are the best show around(and the best alumni)

[hapapp]

It amazes me that we have people who have the time during the game to count each person in attendance. It is no mystery that attendance is based on tickets sold not butts in the seats.

This isn't an FCS-FBS argument. However, there were statements made that when we move up and don't win with the same regularity our attendance will drop. We didn't need to move up to prove that point. I would rather not see so many empty seats in KBS but regardless of division if we don't win on the field there will be plenty of aluminum. Let's face it, it may be a while before we see 30,000 at KBS. It will be interesting to see what we draw next year with a new batch of teams coming to Boone.

[Saint3333]

Attendance fell as an FCS program. We are seeing who supports the program in tough times right now. For those that do I'll see you there next game and you'll be a fellow Yosef Club donor for years to come. Supporting them in tough times will make the successes in years to come sweeter.

[luvyosef]

The 18,000 tally doesn't bother me. It was all the people leaving when the game was still tied at 21-21 and 28-28. More than a few of us were wondering why? Yes, it was cold an yes, that was a small amount of sleet, but zip up, nut up and cheer to the final bell. Let's just beat WCU! Go App!

[WataugaMan]

The 18,000 tally doesn't bother me. It was all the people leaving when the game was still tied at 21-21 and 28-28. More than a few of us were wondering why? Yes, it was cold an yes, that was a small amount of sleet, but zip up, nut up and cheer to the final bell. Let's just beat WCU! Go App!

How about Woffie?

[WVAPPeer]

It amazes me that we have people who have the time during the game to count each person in attendance. It is no mystery that attendance is based on tickets sold not butts in the seats.

This isn't an FCS-FBS argument. However, there were statements made that when we move up and don't win with the same regularity our attendance will drop. We didn't need to move up to prove that point. I would rather not see so many empty seats in KBS but regardless of division if we don't win on the field there will be plenty of aluminum. Let's face it, it may be a while before we see 30,000 at KBS. It will be interesting to see what we draw next year with a new batch of teams coming to Boone.

COME ON HAPAPP - all we need to do is beat Michigan again and we'll have 35K for Campbell

[WVAPPeer]

One big thing - at least in my mind - that is affecting attendance is this season of "playing for nothing" - next year won't be the case and the following years really won't be the case ---

[bcoach]

18,991. Still better than everyone else in the SoCon.

Next

There were not that many butts in seats today but as long as we out drew our JV conference peers we're good, right?

I'd say 19,000 to watch a 2-7 team playing in cold weather is pretty good. I'm curious as to what the point of all of this is. Its seems the folks that wanted us to stay in FCS can now see first hand what the result is when you don't win every home game in this division. Or is it perhaps that this performance slide occurred BEFORE we moved up and it adversely affected attendance it takes the steam away from the arguments they were storing for next year?

Obviously If we go 2-7 in the Belt it will have similar results. However, I don't expect us to do hat

If we don't make better decisions on the field I am afraid we will do that.

[GoAppsGo92]

This is actually pretty funny. I have been saying for years in the FBS/FCS debates that were on this board and the former MMB that we live in "the rarest of air" in the FCS. A historic combination of conditions starting with the growing, young alumni base... the decision to have 3:30 kicks, and then, of course the unheard of success starting back in the 2005 season and culminating in the 2007 win at Michigan and the 3rd national championship.

The folks somehow assumed that we'd always be king, and the dynasty lasted for a long time until about 2010, when the slide began. FCS football is a product that draws 10k every Saturday... Proven. Fact. We lived above that average for 20 years, and way, way above it for the last 8 years. 30k to watch App play Mars Hill? Come on. When it came to FCS attendance... to say we are an anomaly would be an understatement... we are a freak show.

It's natural for fans to find better things to do than drive 2-3 hours each way to watch a 2-7 team especially in a division that averages less than 10k at a ball game... but we somehow think it is a crisis. And to think that some would use this argument to somehow question the wisdom of the decision to move to FBS football just seems utterly jaded and spiteful. Our course is set gentlemen. Seeing it for what it is steals away the argument for next year, I know, but I have a lot more faith than some that this program will respond well as we progress, and the fans will too.

What's really funny is trying to spin this into some sort of FCS debate. This has absolutely nothing to do with FCS or FBS. We are going to FBS and we needed a good start to that transition. There are a ton of FBS programs around the country that draw less than 15,000 per game. There is also a nationwide trend of declining attendance. Proven. Fact. To have a season like this that gives people a reason, whatever it is, to get used to not coming to games is not the foundation we needed to lay. You're creating strawmen to try to avoid the fact that this COULD become a problem. As I said, I'm not ready to call it a problem yet, but to ignore the possibility is to have your head in the sand.

It has to do with wins and losses. No spin here. You can say there are a ton of FBS schools with 15k averages and I will give you that, but I can also show you tons of FCS teams that average 3k or less... last time I checked, that's a 12k difference worst to worst. I'm not saying that there COULD be an attendance problem, I saying that what we are seeing is totally normal given the performance on the field... not a crisis. I find it funny... the attempt to worry about "the foundation we need to lay for our transition" as if there is any linkage. If we win, they come, if we don't, they don't... but I'd rather have 15k in 1-11 season than 3k wouldn't you? We came back to earth at the right time, in my opinion. Plenty of stuff to work on the rest of the year and during the off-season that will have a renewed sense of urgency as we enter our first year as an FBS team.

Interesting viewpoint. When we first started drawing big crowds, many on here sad it wasn't winning that was doing it, it was CC replacing Roach and the gameday atmosphere he had created and that winning was secondary. They pointed to the first Coastal Carolina game before we knew wewere going to be hot.

Yes, as stated earlier, 2005 was not just the first NC year. It was the year we had a number of changes to make game day more attractive to alumni and families. Tailgating, family events and features and later kickoff times have benefit, and will continue to benefit the program. Boone is a great place to tailgate, take families and enjoy a great game day atmosphere. The building success of the program, and a more entertaining brand of football (option read spread) had a lot to do with it as well.

And, that's why I think we will be ok, and why I think Cobb and the rest are trying so hard to have 6 home games even in FBS. They get it. Paid attendance is the key. More home games are the key. If we return to success on the gridiron and bring in some competition with star power at the same time, the potential to be a very healthy mid-major program is definitely in our future.

[appfury]

The emerging concern is the math. Here is my point: If our attendance is 7,500 less (paying) per game, averaged for the entire year, then that is $187,500 per game in lost revenue. Multiplied by 6 games, then you get $1,125,000 in lost ticket revenue for the season. Add in ancillary revenue of concessions and other items and that number easily grows to $1.25 to 1.5 million annually in lost revenue. Now that is a large deficit to overcome. So I think that would be a cause for concern. This is not another debate on the move up, that debate is over. But to "put your head in the sand" as 89 said concerning our attendance trends, then that is not facing the business reality of our declining attendance. Just my two cents.

[GoAppsGo92]

The emerging concern is the math. Here is my point: If our attendance is 7,500 less (paying) per game, averaged for the entire year, then that is $187,500 per game in lost revenue. Multiplied by 6 games, then you get $1,125,000 in lost ticket revenue for the season. Add in ancillary revenue of concessions and other items and that number easily grows to $1.25 to 1.5 million annually in lost revenue. Now that is a large deficit to overcome. So I think that would be a cause for concern. This is not another debate on the move up, that debate is over. But to "put your head in the sand" as 89 said concerning our attendance trends, then that is not facing the business reality of our declining attendance. Just my two cents.

Exactly right. This season will cost the university money... but its also costing the Boone community even more. $1.5 million isn't half of it when you consider the economic impact. People don't pay the same money for a used Yugo as they would a brand new Mercedes. Go back and read the comments leading up to my first one... see the implication there? I pulled the issue into the limelight because of the linkage folks were making starting with the Sun Belt press conference comment. We have a lot of passive aggressive folks out there waiting to jump on our failure... that's what happens when you live so long at the top.

My point is this impact was going to happen no matter what division we play in. This didn't happen because we are in FBS and are struggling. It happened now against teams we are used to beating regularly. It's an inconvienent truth, but its there for everyone to see.

[appbio91]

18,991. Still better than everyone else in the SoCon.

Next

There were not that many butts in seats today but as long as we out drew our JV conference peers we're good, right?

I'd say 19,000 to watch a 2-7 team playing in cold weather is pretty good. I'm curious as to what the point of all of this is. Its seems the folks that wanted us to stay in FCS can now see first hand what the result is when you don't win every home game in this division. Or is it perhaps that this performance slide occurred BEFORE we moved up and it adversely affected attendance it takes the steam away from the arguments they were storing for next year?

The point, as I see it, is that neither App or Georgia Southern needed this kind of season as a lead-in to our first FBS season. There was nowhere near 19,000 in KBS today. I've seen similar crowds for playoff games announced in the 14k range. I'd say there might have been 16,000.

I'm not ready to call it a problem yet, but the potential for a problem certainly exists.

Thanks 89, you have a lot more cred on here than me. I was not trying to spread gloom and doom or announce the end of our program. I was however shocked at the attendance. Weather? Give me a break it was a beautiful Boone day, a little breezy but far from cold. We turned it around and beat our rival last week in a great performance. I just thought at least a similar crowd would come out to support the team in a spoiler game.

[appbio91]

This is actually pretty funny. I have been saying for years in the FBS/FCS debates that were on this board and the former MMB that we live in "the rarest of air" in the FCS. A historic combination of conditions starting with the growing, young alumni base... the decision to have 3:30 kicks, and then, of course the unheard of success starting back in the 2005 season and culminating in the 2007 win at Michigan and the 3rd national championship.

The folks somehow assumed that we'd always be king, and the dynasty lasted for a long time until about 2010, when the slide began. FCS football is a product that draws 10k every Saturday... Proven. Fact. We lived above that average for 20 years, and way, way above it for the last 8 years. 30k to watch App play Mars Hill? Come on. When it came to FCS attendance... to say we are an anomaly would be an understatement... we are a freak show.

It's natural for fans to find better things to do than drive 2-3 hours each way to watch a 2-7 team especially in a division that averages less than 10k at a ball game... but we somehow think it is a crisis. And to think that some would use this argument to somehow question the wisdom of the decision to move to FBS football just seems utterly jaded and spiteful. Our course is set gentlemen. Seeing it for what it is steals away the argument for next year, I know, but I have a lot more faith than some that this program will respond well as we progress, and the fans will too.

Reading retention is not a strength of mine but I have not seen a single posting in this thread using falling attendance as an FBS-FCS issue. It is in my opinion only a sign of a soft fan base. We will be fine going forward but as others have pointed out the lost revenue in ticket sales, and we have lost plenty this year, will have to be made up somewhere. If attendance is down we probably can't count on a surge in Yosef giving so be prepared to pay more for priority seating, more for tickets and I don't care what Cobb said at the presser student fees will increase. All three of these hit me with kids currently attending App so without carrying on too long that is my point why falling attendance is bad regardless of who we are playing.

[Saint3333]

We have some fans that like to win, when things get tough they don't show up. I hope they don't treat every part of their lives with such effort.

If we can't get 25k for WCU to support seniors like Peacock, Washington, Frazier, Jackson, etc It will be disappointing. Those guys deserve a standing ovation to close out their playing careers no matter what our record is.

[appbio91]

We have some fans that like to win, when things get tough they don't show up. I hope they don't treat every part of their lives with such effort.

If we can't get 25k for WCU to support seniors like Peacock, Washington, Frazier, Jackson, etc It will be disappointing. Those guys deserve a standing ovation to close out their playing careers no matter what our record is.

There's something we should all be able to agree on!!!

[App91]

18,991. Still better than everyone else in the SoCon.

Next

Umm...Isn't that like being the tallest midget?
10k+ voted with thier feet on Saturday.

[hapapp]

It amazes me that we have people who have the time during the game to count each person in attendance. It is no mystery that attendance is based on tickets sold not butts in the seats.

This isn't an FCS-FBS argument. However, there were statements made that when we move up and don't win with the same regularity our attendance will drop. We didn't need to move up to prove that point. I would rather not see so many empty seats in KBS but regardless of division if we don't win on the field there will be plenty of aluminum. Let's face it, it may be a while before we see 30,000 at KBS. It will be interesting to see what we draw next year with a new batch of teams coming to Boone.

COME ON HAPAPP - all we need to do is beat Michigan again and we'll have 35K for Campbell

There you go!!

[Dmanuhone]

Umm...Isn't that like being the tallest midget?
10k+ voted with thier feet on Saturday.[/quote]''

That's a big assumption you are making there.

[App91]

Not sure how that in an assumption, that is fact. Last year we averaged 26, 358, 26,211 in 2011. Ok so not over 10k but 8k less than AVERAGE of the last 2 years (including the low playoff number). Is that not telling? More importantly, we rely on the FB gate to pay for the Athletic dept. budget, now we have to get that money elsewhere. I hope this is a blip on the radar but if in fact it is a new trend that will have disasterous affects.