State of Appalachian athletics

[High Country Student]

My question for everyone on here is how do we improve the current state of our athletics? I was looking a moment ago on the Socon Rankings page and it seems like we are barely in the top half of the conference for any of our sports. Our power sport football struggled last year. After the awesome season the baseball team had two years ago, they have fallen down. We're firing and hiring coaches creating hope but a lot of uncertainty. Teams struggling to love up to academic expectations. Key players on multiple teams getting suspended/kicked off for various reasons.Yet we're moving up to a new league in the Sun Belt and the excitement is there for that which is great however the biggest uncertainty of them all worries me. What if the new chancellor (who ever it is) isn't supportive of athletics? I hate to say it but we are somewhat of a fragile program right now. A lot of support but we are struggling on the field. I'm as excited as anyone for the new league and the times ahead and will always bleed the black and gold being there no matter what but I have to say there are many improvements needed and the wrong moves could be tough on us as fans, the reputation of our programs, etc. I fully believe we will recover but does anyone have any other thoughts on the current state of our program? Agreements or disagreements? Go Apps!

[asu66]

"We're firing and hiring coaches creating hope but a lot of uncertainty."

You seem to think there has been some wild, methodical, serial firing campaign at ASU. If so, I must have missed it. I've been following ASU sports for several decades; and in that time I can think of only four coaches who were actually fired for cause.

1983 Mike Working, Head Football Coach
2008 Ben Popoola, Women's Head Soccer Coach
2009 Houston Fancher, Men's Head Basketball Coach
2011 Chris Moore, Assistant Football Coach

You make it sound as though there's been a madman in the AD's office firing everyone in sight. That, of course, is far from the case. We've had a lot of coaches to move on when their contracts expired over the last 40 years. That happens in all walks of life every day. That's in no way a firing.

Some uncertainty is created when one person leaves a position; and someone else is hired to pick it up and go. Uncertainty is often a good thing. It creates what might be called healthy anxiety--causing those around the situation to do a lot of soul searching to figure how they might work harder and smarter to become better...or how to help make their team better and how to make a good first impression.

It is true, however, that some of our revenue and non-revenue sports haven't been very competitive in the SoCon. We are certainly going to have to pay higher salaries; hire better coaches and recruit better athletes if we are to become highly competitive in the Sunbelt. Those are facts.

[hapapp]

It has been somewhat of a perfect storm this year. If I recall my own research, I believe to this point only two ASU teams have finished with a record above .500. I believe volleyball and women's soccer are the only two prior to the Spring season to have reached that level. The various teams under the track umbrella are usually competitive. But, even those teams seem to be a bit off their usual pace. While we contend for the Commissioner's Cup again, that is in large measure due to our fielding so many sports.

I don't have an explanation for it. I don't know if it reflects a trend or is an aberration. Is it poor coaching? Lack of recruiting? I do look forward to our entrance into the Sun Belt and will be very interested to see how we compete across the board in all venues.

[firemoose]

We're just sneakin' up on em'.

[Rekdiver]

Atta boy moose!

[MountainMan]

We've had a lot of coaches to move on when their contracts expired over the last 40 years. That happens in all walks of life every day. That's in no way a firing.

It may not technically be a firing, but it's effectively the same thing in most cases, isn't it?

I agree with the overall point of your comment that there is no massive athletic department firing spree.
However, I think most folks would say that Jason Capel was "fired" -- I know that I do.

[appgrunt71]

I attended last night's Yosef Club Spring tour to a solid, confident, excited crowd of Yosef members. The presentation mainly focused on the football program and that App State had one of the best recruiting classes in the Sun Belt. Clearly App's mindset is winning. The slogan "Together we Rise" represents the whole athletic program and shows that ASU expects to be the best in our new conference, in every endeavor. I'm fired up and ready to go! Go App!

[Maddog1956]

"We're firing and hiring coaches creating hope but a lot of uncertainty."

You seem to think there has been some wild, methodical, serial firing campaign at ASU. If so, I must have missed it. I've been following ASU sports for several decades; and in that time I can think of only four coaches who were actually fired for cause.

1983 Mike Working, Head Football Coach
2008 Ben Popoola, Women's Head Soccer Coach
2009 Houston Fancher, Men's Head Basketball Coach
2011 Chris Moore, Assistant Football Coach

While not technically "firing", not renewing a contract is for all purposes "fired". So is "asked to resigned".

It is looked at the same to both the employee and employer.

I don't think that's necessary the main problem with the athletics program however, which I see as due to very poor leadership at the top.

[ASUMountaineer]

We've had a lot of coaches to move on when their contracts expired over the last 40 years. That happens in all walks of life every day. That's in no way a firing.

It may not technically be a firing, but it's effectively the same thing in most cases, isn't it?

I agree with the overall point of your comment that there is no massive athletic department firing spree.
However, I think most folks would say that Jason Capel was "fired" -- I know that I do.

It depends on what you're used to, I think. As someone that deals with contracts and works with several contracted employees in our office, it is typical for contracts not to be renewed in some cases. A lot of times, it has nothing to do with performance. A contract is a binding document for a finite amount of time--it is not open-ended. If a contract is ending and is not renewed, it is not a firing. I would argue that it is not "even effectively the same thing."

I understand the tendency to say that Capel was fired, but it simply isn't the case. The MBB HC position is a contract position, and the HC can only expect to be maintained for the duration of the contract. Any subsequent extension of the contract is dependent upon both sides mutually agreeing.

[appgrouch]

"We're firing and hiring coaches creating hope but a lot of uncertainty."

You seem to think there has been some wild, methodical, serial firing campaign at ASU. If so, I must have missed it. I've been following ASU sports for several decades; and in that time I can think of only four coaches who were actually fired for cause.

1983 Mike Working, Head Football Coach
2008 Ben Popoola, Women's Head Soccer Coach
2009 Houston Fancher, Men's Head Basketball Coach
2011 Chris Moore, Assistant Football Coach

You make it sound as though there's been a madman in the AD's office firing everyone in sight. That, of course, is far from the case. We've had a lot of coaches to move on when their contracts expired over the last 40 years. That happens in all walks of life every day. That's in no way a firing.

Some uncertainty is created when one person leaves a position; and someone else is hired to pick it up and go. Uncertainty is often a good thing. It creates what might be called healthy anxiety--causing those around the situation to do a lot of soul searching to figure how they might work harder and smarter to become better...or how to help make their team better and how to make a good first impression.

It is true, however, that some of our revenue and non-revenue sports haven't been very competitive in the SoCon. We are certainly going to have to pay higher salaries; hire better coaches and recruit better athletes if we are to become highly competitive in the Sunbelt. Those are facts.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. How was Houston's a fire for cause? At least 2 of those coaches were fired for inappropriate actions.

Fancher ran a clean, high APR program, where problems were dealt with in a timely and fair manner. Yes he had some down years, but he was able to right the ship each time. He was not fired for cause, he was fired for spite by people that wanted flash and "names" and wanted to control the program with money. If the team needed to go another direction, then they could have changed after his contract was up and we would have been spared the crap of the last 5 years.

[MountainMan]

I understand the tendency to say that Capel was fired, but it simply isn't the case.

The system we are in results in the fixed term contracts for coaches, so I get the ability to say that a decision to "not offer a new contract" is not technically a firing, but among us girls, we all know that "Capel was fired".

[ASUMountaineer]

I understand the tendency to say that Capel was fired, but it simply isn't the case.

The system we are in results in the fixed term contracts for coaches, so I get the ability to say that a decision to "not offer a new contract" is not technically a firing, but among us girls, we all know that "Capel was fired".

It was the expiration of a contract, it was not a firing. Accuracy is important. Again, it's easy to say he was fired, but in reality his contract was executed to term. He was not fired, his contract will expire as written.

I don't understand how someone can actually believe that fulfilling the terms of a contract is a firing. It's just inaccurate. There is no technicality to this situation, his contract will be executed to term and both parties of the contract will go separate ways.

[Yosef84]

I certainly understand that the line gets pretty blurred between non-renewal of a contract vs. "firing" but the distinction is certainly significant. If you need to appreciate the different, just imagine that YOU are the person involved and that you are submitting an application for your next position. In the section "reason for leaving", which would you rather say: Terminated? or Expiration of contract?

Athletics and coaching are a bit different that general business because these things all happen so publically, but I do think there is a very fundamental difference between the two.

[Maddog1956]

It was the expiration of a contract, it was not a firing. Accuracy is important. Again, it's easy to say he was fired, but in reality his contract was executed to term. He was not fired, his contract will expire as written.

I don't understand how someone can actually believe that fulfilling the terms of a contract is a firing. It's just inaccurate. There is no technicality to this situation, his contract will be executed to term and both parties of the contract will go separate ways.

In the business world the meaning is the same, if the position doesn't change and still exist. If I have done my DD I better know if the person was "fired" (which is usually related to performance) or if it was due to the nature of the job changing, contract or not.

Accuracy in this case isn't as important as perception. I don't think Capel could go anywhere else and the perception wasn't that he was fired.

Maybe if the OP had just said "let go", it would have been more accurate, but I don't think it would have changed the question/statement.

[ASUMountaineer]

It was the expiration of a contract, it was not a firing. Accuracy is important. Again, it's easy to say he was fired, but in reality his contract was executed to term. He was not fired, his contract will expire as written.

I don't understand how someone can actually believe that fulfilling the terms of a contract is a firing. It's just inaccurate. There is no technicality to this situation, his contract will be executed to term and both parties of the contract will go separate ways.

In the business world the meaning is the same, if the position doesn't change and still exist. If I have done my DD I better know if the person was "fired" (which is usually related to performance) or if it was due to the nature of the job changing, contract or not.

Accuracy in this case isn't as important as perception. I don't think Capel could go anywhere else and the perception wasn't that he was fired.

Maybe if the OP had just said "let go", it would have been more accurate, but I don't think it would have changed the question/statement.

The better choice of words is "Capel's Contract Will Expire - Search Begins for a New Head Coach."

You're pretty general with using "in the business world," as the perception/reality depends on many things including the type of business. Of course, college coaching is a different animal all together. However, in the business world, there could be all kinds of different perceptions/realities with an expiring contract.

Here's an example, in my office we had two IT contractors that maintained the same system platform for our office. We had our budget cut and could only afford one. At the end of the fiscal year, which coincided with the end of the contracts, we chose to renew the contract with one and not the other. It had nothing to do with performance, and the nature of the job did not change.

With all of that said, it's a silly argument, but I'm a stickler for details. I just can't help myself. But, I'll bow out and let you boys continue on. I've dug my trench. Be good Maddog.

[MountainMan]

.... It was the expiration of a contract, it was not a firing. Accuracy is important. Again, it's easy to say he was fired, but in reality his contract was executed to term. He was not fired, his contract will expire as written.

Well, try to convince the rest of the world of that. Good luck.

Associated Press Headline:
Jason Capel fired as Appalachian State head coach after four seasons

NBC Sports Headline:
Report: Jason Capel fired as coach of Appalachian State

Local News 8 Headline:
Appalachian State fires coach Capel

CBSSports.com Headline:
Appalachian State fires head coach Jason Capel

[Appsolutley]

Screw the Capels. Let's move on. I am excited about the possibility of restoring some semblance of integrity to the program.

[brocktune90]

Inaccurate journalism aside, if you hire a painter to paint a room and sign a contract for them to do the job, what do you call it when the room is done being painted? Would you say that you fired the painter? No, the terms of the contract were fulfilled.

[Maddog1956]

Inaccurate journalism aside, if you hire a painter to paint a room and sign a contract for them to do the job, what do you call it when the room is done being painted? Would you say that you fired the painter? No, the terms of the contract were fulfilled.

If I told the painter that there was a 100 rooms and the expectation was that he could have the rest after doing a good job with the first, I'd say he was fired. If the total decision on if the contract is renewed or not is based on performance, I would call it fired.

But call it what you will I think it's clear what everyone thinks happens.

[appst89]

It was the expiration of a contract, it was not a firing. Accuracy is important. Again, it's easy to say he was fired, but in reality his contract was executed to term. He was not fired, his contract will expire as written.

I don't understand how someone can actually believe that fulfilling the terms of a contract is a firing. It's just inaccurate. There is no technicality to this situation, his contract will be executed to term and both parties of the contract will go separate ways.

In the business world the meaning is the same, if the position doesn't change and still exist. If I have done my DD I better know if the person was "fired" (which is usually related to performance) or if it was due to the nature of the job changing, contract or not.

Accuracy in this case isn't as important as perception. I don't think Capel could go anywhere else and the perception wasn't that he was fired.

Maybe if the OP had just said "let go", it would have been more accurate, but I don't think it would have changed the question/statement.

The better choice of words is "Capel's Contract Will Expire - Search Begins for a New Head Coach."

You're pretty general with using "in the business world," as the perception/reality depends on many things including the type of business. Of course, college coaching is a different animal all together. However, in the business world, there could be all kinds of different perceptions/realities with an expiring contract.

Here's an example, in my office we had two IT contractors that maintained the same system platform for our office. We had our budget cut and could only afford one. At the end of the fiscal year, which coincided with the end of the contracts, we chose to renew the contract with one and not the other. It had nothing to do with performance, and the nature of the job did not change.

With all of that said, it's a silly argument, but I'm a stickler for details. I just can't help myself. But, I'll bow out and let you boys continue on. I've dug my trench. Be good Maddog.

Wish I could give +100 for this. There is so much difference between a firing and a contract expiring that I cannot believe we are actually having this discussion. Just goes to show how far misperception and inaccurate reporting can carry something.