Welcome to your NEW Internet

[97grad]

That's not what I'm suggesting at all. I trust the free market over the government.

And you seriously think a free market is what we have now?? Merely having a philosophical preference for a free market solution doesn't mean we have or will get one.

[appchicago]

Here is my problem with posting things like this video.

John Oliver is a pro-gov't liberal. He is also pro-net neutrality. He also is an entertainer with an entire video production and comedy writing staff at his disposal. He has the means to produce videos like this that are slanted in favor of his ideology that make a mockery of the ideas that oppose his own.

So posting this as a way to have some educate themselves without bias on this issue is disingenuous. Want someone to support the FCC regulating the internet? Show them this video and you'll get some low hanging fruit supporters.

Like I say, if it's not your speed, that's cool. Skip it. Most of the synopses of the issue out there in video format have their own dose of bias, including the one Gonzo just posted. (And I've got to say, that prisonplanet guy's style of lunging slightly at the camera with every little line is disconcerting. Stay still, little fella. I feel like I'm hearing net neutrality slippery-slope arguments from a leashed Jack Russell Terrier.) And few of these videos purport to be straight reporting. They're just opinions. Take them as such.

I took my own stab at trying to convey the heart of the issue. Feel free to do the same. Cheers.

[97grad]

Well, I just posted the John Oliver bit because it's a cute little encapsulation of the meat of the issue, but if it's not your speed, whatever. That's cool.

ISPs didn't build the internet. They don't own the network. They own portions of the infrastructure, and what they charge you for is the "last mile," so to speak. However, when they throttle external content (which happens), that's an issue.

Here is my problem with posting things like this video.

John Oliver is a pro-gov't liberal. He is also pro-net neutrality. He also is an entertainer with an entire video production and comedy writing staff at his disposal. He has the means to produce videos like this that are slanted in favor of his ideology that make a mockery of the ideas that oppose his own.

So posting this as a way to have some educate themselves without bias on this issue is disingenuous. Want someone to support the FCC regulating the internet? Show them this video and you'll get some low hanging fruit supporters.

And the author of the article you previously linked is an unbiased moderate huh? Things like not liking Oliver and claiming he's biased and has an opinion (who doesn't?) doesn't actually refute any of his arguments. All I'm hearing from the other side here is the same old "Government Bad!" chant.

[Gonzo]

If our free market has been eroded by anything it's the incessant finger prodding of the clueless bureaucrat.

There is no evidence that citizens are being steamrolled by higher-bidding corporations in this context. Even the architects of net neutrality merely champion it as a proactive measure.

Collectivism is poisoning the population into turning on the very system that created the worlds most powerful economy in the first place.

"Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of the ultimate consequences to which there principles will lead."
-Ayn Rand (no I didn't just google that. It's part of her introduction to Anthem, which I was rereading yesterday. It made me think of the net neutrality debate and I marked it in my copy. Didn't think I'd need to deploy the line the very next day.)

[bcoach]

This is the most comprehensive summary of the issue I've seen.

Yes that pretty much says it. In addition there is a very simple explanation for why a document has that many pages. It is to assure that nobody will read it even if they are allowed to.

Please direct me to a single piece of legislation that was short, sweet and directly to the point.

And Gonz, you're assuming that these corporations have our best interests in mind and won't take advantage of the consumer when there is literally no incentive not to? Sounds to me like you're just trading your gov't "daddy" for a corporate one.

I can't. That is the point. this is just another example of garbage product.

[bcoach]

Well, I just posted the John Oliver bit because it's a cute little encapsulation of the meat of the issue, but if it's not your speed, whatever. That's cool.

ISPs didn't build the internet. They don't own the network. They own portions of the infrastructure, and what they charge you for is the "last mile," so to speak. However, when they throttle external content (which happens), that's an issue.

Here is my problem with posting things like this video.

John Oliver is a pro-gov't liberal. He is also pro-net neutrality. He also is an entertainer with an entire video production and comedy writing staff at his disposal. He has the means to produce videos like this that are slanted in favor of his ideology that make a mockery of the ideas that oppose his own.

So posting this as a way to have some educate themselves without bias on this issue is disingenuous. Want someone to support the FCC regulating the internet? Show them this video and you'll get some low hanging fruit supporters.

And the author of the article you previously linked is an unbiased moderate huh? Things like not liking Oliver and claiming he's biased and has an opinion (who doesn't?) doesn't actually refute any of his arguments. All I'm hearing from the other side here is the same old "Government Bad!" chant.

Well 95% of the time it is.

[appchicago]

Yeesh. Ayn Rand quotes now?

When's football season start?

[appst89]

If our free market has been eroded by anything it's the incessant finger prodding of the clueless bureaucrat.

There is no evidence that citizens are being steamrolled by higher-bidding corporations in this context. Even the architects of net neutrality merely champion it as a proactive measure.

Collectivism is poisoning the population into turning on the very system that created the worlds most powerful economy in the first place.

"Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of the ultimate consequences to which there principles will lead." -Ayn Rand

And you've fallen into the trap of believing that what we have now is a free market.

There is nothing collectivist about a free-market. It would be nice to have one instead of the corporatocracy that rules the US now. The ship that created the world's most powerful economy sailed a long time ago.

[Gonzo]

Yeesh. Ayn Rand quotes now?

When's football season start?

I hear ya.

But what better source of insight into government control than a woman whose philosophy stemmed from an unhappy life in the Soviet Union?

[appchicago]

Yeesh. Ayn Rand quotes now?

When's football season start?

I hear ya.

But what better source of insight into government control than a woman whose philosophy stemmed from an unhappy life in the Soviet Union?

For me? Any insight. Literally any other insight. If I wanted clunky philosophy wrapped in speculative fiction, I'd sooner pick up something my L. Ron Hubbard.

But hey! Different strokes.

[Saint3333]

Funny thing is I think both sides of this debate want the same thing and neither will get see the internet be what it was intended to be.

Can we all agree on that?

I do want net neutrality (in a pure and simple form), but I don't want the government to relegate it.

[Gonzo]

If our free market has been eroded by anything it's the incessant finger prodding of the clueless bureaucrat.

There is no evidence that citizens are being steamrolled by higher-bidding corporations in this context. Even the architects of net neutrality merely champion it as a proactive measure.

Collectivism is poisoning the population into turning on the very system that created the worlds most powerful economy in the first place.

"Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of the ultimate consequences to which there principles will lead." -Ayn Rand

And you've fallen into the trap of believing that what we have now is a free market.

There is nothing collectivist about a free-market. It would be nice to have one instead of the corporatocracy that rules the US now. The ship that created the world's most powerful economy sailed a long time ago.

Of course not. You've got the terms backwards. I'm a fan of individualism and free market, regardless of what degree the US practices the two at this very moment.

[HeffnerIV]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why so many would continue to trust governments after all the atrocities they've inflicted around the world. No private groups in history even come close to the oppression and body counts of Government.

You can hate corporatism all you want, as I do, but there's no corporatism without government force. Government, for better or worse, is force.

[Appftw]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why so many would continue to trust governments after all the atrocities they've inflicted around the world. No private groups in history even come close to the oppression and body counts of Government.

You can hate corporatism all you want, as I do, but there's no corporatism without government force. Government, for better or worse, is force.

I could say the same thing for organized religion.

[Gonzo]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why so many would continue to trust governments after all the atrocities they've inflicted around the world. No private groups in history even come close to the oppression and body counts of Government.

You can hate corporatism all you want, as I do, but there's no corporatism without government force. Government, for better or worse, is force.

I could say the same thing for organized religion.

I can agree with you on that one, my old friend.

Too often the two were one in the same.

[appst89]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why so many would continue to trust governments after all the atrocities they've inflicted around the world. No private groups in history even come close to the oppression and body counts of Government.

You can hate corporatism all you want, as I do, but there's no corporatism without government force. Government, for better or worse, is force.

I don't trust either.

[HeffnerIV]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why so many would continue to trust governments after all the atrocities they've inflicted around the world. No private groups in history even come close to the oppression and body counts of Government.

You can hate corporatism all you want, as I do, but there's no corporatism without government force. Government, for better or worse, is force.

I could say the same thing for organized religion.

You're correct. When religion and government were one, religion certainly was/is responsible for a number of awful things. But again, religion has no force without government.

[HeffnerIV]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why so many would continue to trust governments after all the atrocities they've inflicted around the world. No private groups in history even come close to the oppression and body counts of Government.

You can hate corporatism all you want, as I do, but there's no corporatism without government force. Government, for better or worse, is force.

I don't trust either.

And you shouldn't.

[appchicago]

There. We all agree. Big organizations are bad.

Now somebody pass the mason jar. It's just about quittin' time.

[WVAPPeer]

Doesn't our government regulate gas prices? Why can't the guy on the corner sell his gas for $1.50? Wouldn't that be free-market? - Everyone moans about the price of gas but we keep buying -