# of Clemson tickets sold?

[EastHallApp]

One other point I would make, on the debate of "we need to see the demand first" vs. "if we wait until the demand is there, it will be too late." Let's consider the effects of expanding "too soon" vs. "too late":

Expanding too late (i.e., after the demand has been shown) could mean:

- A couple years of jam-packed crowds for every game, including on the lawn.
- A real home-field advantage for the team, and a memorable scene for recruits.
- Increased demand for season tickets as fans look to make sure they don't miss out on the big games.
- Increased Yosef Club donations as fans look to gain access to better seats and buy single-game tickets before they go on public sale.
- Increased donations for expansion as fans see and feel the need for more seating firsthand.

Expanding too soon could mean:

- Many thousands of empty seats on a regular basis (which we're already seeing now - but add thousands more).
- Ticket office forced to continue trend of offering special deals to fill seats, so even the tickets that are sold bring in reduced revenue.
- Fans become accustomed to discount offers and readily available tickets, and they become a disincentive to paying full price or buying early, further damaging season ticket and preseason sales, creating the need for MORE discount offers, etc.
- Half empty stadiums generate negative publicity for the school following the expensive expansion project and give rival recruiters a negative talking point.

[Saint3333]

Someone paid attention in Econ.

[NewApp]

The arguments about "proving demand" seem tired to me. Those arguments were made years ago and have been followed by several years of over capacity attendance. Yes, we are down NOW, but the demand has already been proven.

I just don't think it works that way. You can't assume that because demand was there a few years ago that it will automatically come back. For one, there are factors in depressing attendance at live sporting events around the country, which have already been covered here.

For another, we aren't offering the same product we were in 2007. The demand that was shown was for a team that won multiple FCS championships and was the talk of the nation after the Michigan win. Will that same demand be there for a Sun Belt team that wins 8-9 games per year (and charges more for tickets)? It's taken as an article of faith by some that it will, but where are the other Sun Belt teams who are drawing 30,000-plus?

Sure if we achieve Boise-type success, I expect people will come out in droves. But building based on that before it happens is like saving for retirement by playing the lottery

An analysis of factors is absolute what would be needed in preparing a forecast of demand, but historical performance (attendance) is absolutely a factor and would probably be a driving factor. I do think that the ticket pricing is a contributor to the decline, but we have consistently exceeded the official capacity of our stadium and we've had to use temporary seating to accommodate fans. The decision for expanding the stadium is more complex than looking at THIS year's attendance, and those who are talking in those terms are the ones who are grossly over-simplifying.

All I'm saying is that I believe we've already demonstrated the need for expanded seating. Have we PROVEN that we will need 30K? No...probably not. We've only hit that mark a handful of times, but if we're expanding, we need to take a chunk and not a nibble this time. We do need to be fiscally responsible and I'm sure we will. I'd like to see a first class add, and baring a significant new funding source (corporate sponsor) we can't do it this year. There is no doubt in my mind that our administration is already working on this issue though, so to those saying we "should be working on it" are stating the obvious. I'm sure they know that also.

One thing to consider is that if we expand KBS, there will be other facilities on campus that would get a chunk. That has to be allowed for.

[NewApp]

One other point I would make, on the debate of "we need to see the demand first" vs. "if we wait until the demand is there, it will be too late." Let's consider the effects of expanding "too soon" vs. "too late":

Expanding too late (i.e., after the demand has been shown) could mean:

- A couple years of jam-packed crowds for every game, including on the lawn.
- A real home-field advantage for the team, and a memorable scene for recruits.
- Increased demand for season tickets as fans look to make sure they don't miss out on the big games.
- Increased Yosef Club donations as fans look to gain access to better seats and buy single-game tickets before they go on public sale.
- Increased donations for expansion as fans see and feel the need for more seating firsthand.

Expanding too soon could mean:

- Many thousands of empty seats on a regular basis (which we're already seeing now - but add thousands more).
- Ticket office forced to continue trend of offering special deals to fill seats, so even the tickets that are sold bring in reduced revenue.
- Fans become accustomed to discount offers and readily available tickets, and they become a disincentive to paying full price or buying early, further damaging season ticket and preseason sales, creating the need for MORE discount offers, etc.
- Half empty stadiums generate negative publicity for the school following the expensive expansion project and give rival recruiters a negative talking point.

You made excellent points on both sides of the issue. I fear the latter the most. There is added excitement when there is an overflow. It was inspiring during our runs to see SRO.

[ASUMountaineer]

All I can say after reading this is if you made a comment on this thread about the stadium expansion you better be at the home opener and the Clempson game. Go Apps!

I haven't really made a comment on this thread re: stadium expansion, but I'll be at both.

[ASUMountaineer]

I do think there's more than just two camps on this issue.

I think the administration needs to develop a master expansion plan that has multiple phases with measures that trigger advancing to the next phase. This master plan can be high level, but still measurable--similar to a strategic business plan. My guess is that the administration has something like this or is working on something like this, but it's not public knowledge. I can't imagine that the PTB's are simply going to sit on their hands, or that they will simply expand for the sake of expanding.

A well-planned and well-managed strategic master plan should be universally acceptable to the masses. I just wish, if such a thing exists in the AD's office, we had an idea as to what it is--because I'm nosey.

[Dmanuhone]

We need to quit having to lease endzone seating.

[AppDawg]

We need to quit having to lease endzone seating.

Easy fix. Put the Band back in the East or West stands. There are plenty of seats available.

[NewApp]

We need to quit having to lease endzone seating.

Easy fix. Put the Band back in the East or West stands. There are plenty of seats available.

Too true to be funny, Dawg.

[asutrnr81]

The only person I can take care of is me....I'll be at both!

[Yosef10]

What real advantages are there to us expanding the stadium? Since 2011...2012 at the latest, KBS has been embarrassingly empty. Expansion would only add to that embarrassment at this point in time. Butts need to be in the seats, in my opinion the students have carried the attendance numbers on their shoulders the past few years. You'll always have them, as has been said its alumni and 3rd party non affiliated fans we have to target. Hopefully that gets done. And if it does we need to see an attendance number of 25k a game sustain for a few years. Then and only then, if even then should we expand. We can't change who we are, we're in Boone, NC, not exactly NYC. All this talk of expanding to 40k, 50k is a little much. 30k is realistically all that we need in all probability. That's not a bad thing, 30k packed in with the sound bouncing off the mtn would create a great atmosphere.

On the other hand I would be ok with giving the east side a complete renovation so it doesn't look like we moved it from Watauga High. If we could find the money.

[boonetown1]

Every Keeps talking about filling the stadium during our "run". But as a student during that time, believe me we did not fill all games. We did have a many due to weather and relevant competition, but still had many game with aluminum showing.

ECU expanded to bring in good competition and it helped. They do not sell out the other games, but it helps to bring in more "relevant " match ups.

[NewApp]

Every Keeps talking about filling the stadium during our "run". But as a student during that time, believe me we did not fill all games. We did have a many due to weather and relevant competition, but still had many game with aluminum showing.

ECU expanded to bring in good competition and it helped. They do not sell out the other games, but it helps to bring in more "relevant " match ups.

Never saw much aluminum except when people were leaving early. Saw the bank filled butt to butt.

[SpeedkingATL]

Go Apps, Beat Clemson! Be there!

[NewApp]

Go Apps, Beat Clemson! Be there!

One game at a time, although I'm looking forward to showing the Tigers what we have as much as anybody.
Let's beat Howard first without showing Clemson much of our playbook.