Howard Attendance

[EastHallApp]

Subjectivity aside, even if your conspiracy theory is true and we had thousands and thousands of people who paid for tickers and didn't show up, we still sold more tickets than we had seats to see us play Howard on a holiday weekend. Those are official numbers. Empirical evidence. An objective standard of review. That's certified proof of demand exceeding supply, and in arguably the least desirable home game of the season.

Only if you count everyone in attendance - including discount tickets - as demand, and don't count lawn seating or temp seating as supply.

In reality, demand exceeding supply would mean that fans who wanted to buy a ticket could not find one available. I assume no one seriously believes that was the case last weekend.

FWIW, I did think the 24,000+ figure seemed about right based on what the crowd looked like in person. It was a very solid turnout.

[NewApp]

Hey, clemmonsapp , I don't know who you are (probably do know you)but I agree 100%. I fought for yrs to get to old guard out of Boone. My old name was Roachout! Now Roachgone, thank the Lord. I am not gonna get into all this in detail but generally speaking when a building (church, stadium etc.) is consistently at 80 to 85% capacity it is time to start expansion plans. Having a little metal showing for half the games is not nearly as important as being able to put 35 to 40,000 in the place for one two or three games. Marshall and Wake will easily be 35,000 if we can accommodate. ECU would easily 40,000. But we will never have the additional revenue if we can't sell the tickets. 20,000 additional tix sold during a season at $75 a pop is $1,500,000 additional $$. That plus a fund raising campaign would go a long way to debt retirement. I have confidence in the people running things now so I feel sure things will be done right. But the new AD does understand about what I have just covered. We will never have ECU or any other program that will bring 8,000 to 10,000 fans without a bigger place. That inability to accommodate with lost $$.

I hope to Hades that we don't get to $75 a ticket any time in the near future. That's $300 for a family of four!!!!

[Gonzo]

Now we've resorted to this. "We didn't buy them until the last minute." They were clearly purchased before kickoff. I don't think offering the discount is a reason to undervalue our turnout either. I live three hours away in Durham and whether or not I'm saving ten bucks on my ticket prices would never be the determining factor for whether I'm driving up for a game.

We can take your word for it, or we can just rewatch the video I posted. 24,000 was not far off. That's more people than seats. On a holiday weekend. Against Howard.

You people are trying sooooo hard -- scraping the bottom of the barrel to disparage Appalachian with exaggerations and half-truths. You think you're being prudent, but the facts are working against you.

[T-Dog]

Eventually the stairs on the lower east side have to be redone. Eventually the seats on the upper west side have to be redone since they're 20 years old currently. Even if you disagree with adding seats, you have to realize that KBS will need a facelift soon.

Also, while the hill is a neat experience, if there's any sort of weather besides sunny and above 60 degrees, it's not ideal for seating at all. We got lucky with great weather for most of the home games 2005-2010.

Regardless of your opinion, we're north of 80% capacity for seats and we're still 7k short of the record attendance. Better to be prepared for any mass influx in the future than stick another person on the hill that can't find a spot.

[EastHallApp]

Now we've resorted to this. "We didn't buy them until the last minute." They were clearly purchased before kickoff. I don't think offering the discount is a reason to undervalue our turnout either. I live three hours away in Durham and whether or not I'm saving ten bucks on my ticket prices would never be the determining factor for whether I'm driving up for a game.

We can take your word for it, or we can just rewatch the video I posted. 24,000 was not far off. That's more people than seats. On a holiday weekend. Against Howard.

You people are trying sooooo hard -- scraping the bottom of the barrel to disparage Appalachian with exaggerations and half-truths. You think you're being prudent, but the facts are working against you.

I doubt it added that many either, but the fact that they offered a discount is proof that sales weren't where they wanted them to be. That's basic marketing stuff. If demand exceeds (or meets, or even almost meets) supply, you don't slash the price of your supply.

Not sure if you read my post, but I agree that 24,000 was not far off.

Obviously you have a point of view and are going to frame the evidence to support it, ignore that which doesn't and insult people ad hoc who disagree with you. That's not my MO. I'd love to see our attendance warrant expansion. If and when it does, I'll be on board. We're just disagreeing about building some seats on a stadium. It's not Middle East policy or something.

[Yosef10]

No one is disparaging App dude, take a breather and calm down. You said it was time to expand after one game that wasn't even full. It's pretty simple, you jumped the gun. In the future it very well may be necessary to expand and we might demonstrate that need throughout the season, but one game doesn't warrant that. I'm sorry you think it's disparaging but really it's just very apparent you didn't take many Econ classes as a student in the High Country.

[YesAppCan]

IF I had my way on expansion, I'd like to see track gone, South (hill) end zone enclosed with more seats and luxury boxes/club seats then terrace all that area behind seating for food pavilion, plenty more restrooms, and maybe a kids field. More thoughts later.

[Gonzo]

I've been an advocate of expansion since long before the Howard game. I am calm. I haven't insulted anyone. I didn't take econ, but I (finally) read Freakanomics this summer. Stephen Dubner, an Appalachian State grad, would look at the data/numbers, which I've been doing. He wouldn't consider the "eye ball test" and selective photos, as you've been doing.

[AppinVA]

The hill has enabled us to "expand" in the cheapest way possible. But what if we never had one? Our largest capacity crowd would never have been over 10,000 before 1978, 17,500 (16,650 under Roach) before 2008, and 24,000 now. Or, without the hill, would we already be sitting at 30,000?

[moehler]

here is another reason to expand, Charlotte just signed a h/h with the Tarheels, in 2025, what I understand, it will be at their stadium, the heels would never agree to that unless they had some kind of assurance that the 49ers will expand their stadium to atleast 25,000. Like it or not, once they expand to an acceptable number for the P5 schools they will be hosting big time schools on a regular basis. Along with ODU expanding, do you really want to have an outdated, 22 thousand seat stadium while those regional schools pass us by? Bottom line, expand or get left behind.

[EastHallApp]

I've been an advocate of expansion since long before the Howard game. I am calm. I haven't insulted anyone. I didn't take econ, but I (finally) read Freakanomics this summer. Stephen Dubner, an Appalachian State grad, would look at the data/numbers, which I've been doing. He wouldn't consider the "eye ball test" and selective photos, as you've been doing.

I'm a big Freakonomics fan too. Guess we just disagree about what the data say (obviously). Check out his podcast if you get a chance - usually pretty fascinating stuff.

You people are trying sooooo hard -- scraping the bottom of the barrel to disparage Appalachian with exaggerations and half-truths. You think you're being prudent, but the facts are working against you.

OK, so if that wasn't meant as a passive-aggressive insult, then I'll respond directly, as you did:

I'm not "trying sooooo hard." I have not disparaged Appalachian at any point. I have exaggerated nothing and, to the best of my knowledge, told no half-truths.

[Gonzo]

A lot of those comments were in response to statements made by Yosef10.

[3rd]

If we only reported payed attendance then why don't we start every game at 18,000 since all students have a ticket..

[Yosef10]

A lot of those comments were in response to statements made by Yosef10.

I too have made no exaggerations or half truths. You must not have made many trips to KBS the 2 years before this ONE past home game where, you know, we had the 2 highest profile Apps ever get inducted into HOF. i know your game is to pick and choose your proof and evidence but that's not my style.

[TheMackAttack]

I'm not interested in insulting people and I've avoided this thread because I think the answer is clear. How can we not, at the very least, be planning and fundraising for an expansion? The home game with the lowest attendance last season was Idaho, where we were at 82% capacity. We may not need the extra seats this season or next season, but I'm confident that by the time 2017 rolls around we're gonna wish we had a few thousand extra seats when Wake Forest arrives.

[JTApps1]

At the end of the day we have 21,500 permanent seats in KBS, but we have averaged 25,000+ in ticket sales every year since 2007. We are lucky to have the bank for overflow as we have proven to have more demand for tickets than seats available. At the same time we should have permanent seats in place for every ticket holder not a step and uncomfortable grass bank that is not even close to the field. Charging people $22 to sit on a hill that may be wet or muddy depending on the weather is not the image I want App to have.

The track is an eyesore and it potentially forces 8-10K fans to sit extremely far away from the action. We need to give fans a better experience and that means giving them actual seats that are close to the action. I personally think once the track is gone (we all agree that is #1 on the to do list) we should build a new lower section on the East Side and build seats in the North End Zone to match. This would leave the bank for extreme overflow, but should give us 28-30K permanent seats to meet our current needs. The next phase would be to build a matching section in the South End Zone to get us into the mid 30k range.

[firemoose]

Well...sick for a few days and this happens. I had a post I wanted to make but didn't want to put it in the Recruiting thread so I think here is the best place for it.

We had a fairly large number of prospects at the game. Been sick since Sunday night and I know a couple of the top guys didn't make it but the number was 40+ or so. There were a lot of 2017 prospects and even some 2018 and 2019 guys. I know Yosef asked a question about feedback in the Recruiting thread but I've honestly been too sick to answer and no site has done any interviews that I've seen so far but I did see a bunch of tweets after the game. Most of them the usual. Great this, great that, etc, but a dozen or so jumped off the page at me.

Great game, great facilities, beautiful (gorgeous, pretty, nice) campus, interesting atmosphere. Looked like a BIG high school game with all the people in the grass and a track around the field...LOL.

That was mostly paraphrasing everything except the part in italics. And the LOL I put in was one of the laughing face emojis. That was a direct quote from one 2017 guy and I saw several others that said similar things. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is not something we ever need to hear coming out of the mouth of any recruit. And you know if a few mentioned things like that that it was discussed with others they were standing with. Take out the laughing face and some might take it as a good thing but we are a Division 1 FBS football program, not a big high school. Several have asked on here in the past couple of years why the track matters so much. The reason is in the numbers. Count the number of FBS stadiums with tracks around them and you'll see why.

Many of the points made in here, both for and against, are valid points. But we have to think of this as a two step process. However, whenever, whatever we do we need to try and figure out a way to make a dedicated Olympic Sports complex along with planning an upgrade of KBS. The old high school is the best option given all that is there (fields, stands, parking with minor upgrades needed) and what has been removed (big old asbestos filled building) but that is between the county and the university. We need to play hard ball with them given how easy we made it for them to get the new HS site. Not the only option but the best overall again given what's already there. Expanding Sofield to full size could be done and it wouldn't cost that much given how it's put together but that's a little thing.

Take out the stadium itself and we have first class facilities that can rival many P5's and that has been confirmed by many that have visited both. It all comes down to funding and the hiring of Doug Gillin. Upgrading the stadium will have to be done at some point. Of that there is no doubt. How many seats need to be added during that upgrade is a fluid number based on a lot of factors but any upgrade that includes expansion to 30,000 with the plans including making it easy to add more, if needed, seems like a proper way to plan. Many on here have said the track needs to go but we have to put it somewhere if we keep T & F. And to do that we have to have a plan for that too. And it all starts with funds. Just look to Ga Sou to see what happens when your eyes are bigger than your stomach. The Stink was upgraded but they had to scale back the original plans and postpone the start for a year because they didn't have the money. We can't place ourselves in that situation. But the fact that we have to upgrade at some point is a given or we will be left in the dust of our peer schools.

I, for one, am really interested to see what kind of funding our new AD can pull out of the hat. And no doubt corporate funds will be needed to truly do what we need to do. Just hope they can wrangle some in.

[NewApp]

At the end of the day we have 21,500 permanent seats in KBS, but we have averaged 25,000+ in ticket sales every year since 2007. We are lucky to have the bank for overflow as we have proven to have more demand for tickets than seats available. At the same time we should have permanent seats in place for every ticket holder not a step and uncomfortable grass bank that is not even close to the field. Charging people $22 to sit on a hill that may be wet or muddy depending on the weather is not the image I want App to have.

The track is an eyesore and it potentially forces 8-10K fans to sit extremely far away from the action. We need to give fans a better experience and that means giving them actual seats that are close to the action. I personally think once the track is gone (we all agree that is #1 on the to do list) we should build a new lower section on the East Side and build seats in the North End Zone to match. This would leave the bank for extreme overflow, but should give us 28-30K permanent seats to meet our current needs. The next phase would be to build a matching section in the South End Zone to get us into the mid 30k range.

There will be more than 10,000 fans a distance away Saturday in the 85,000 seat stadium at Clemson.

[bcoach]

here is another reason to expand, Charlotte just signed a h/h with the Tarheels, in 2025, what I understand, it will be at their stadium, the heels would never agree to that unless they had some kind of assurance that the 49ers will expand their stadium to atleast 25,000. Like it or not, once they expand to an acceptable number for the P5 schools they will be hosting big time schools on a regular basis. Along with ODU expanding, do you really want to have an outdated, 22 thousand seat stadium while those regional schools pass us by? Bottom line, expand or get left behind.

If unc will not come unless we have seating for 25,000 then I hope we expand to 24,999.

[EastHallApp]

I would just reiterate that every single person who sat on the lawn did so by choice - either because they bought a general admission ticket originally or because they chose to sit there instead of in their reserved seat for whatever reason. Not one person was there because it was their only option to watch the game in person.

So if the concern is that people sitting on the grass is bad optics - and perhaps that's a fair concern - I don't see how that's solved by simply adding more seats. We'd have to restrict people from sitting there at all and force them into seats, or bowl in that side so no grassy area remains. Either of those are certainly options we could consider, but both have potential pros and cons.