Let's talk about Clark

[Appmountaineers19]

FBS Football Coaches that were hired in 2020 win totals at their current schools:

UTSA - Jeff Traylor - 31-13 (3 years in CUSA) currently in American
APP State - #TeamClark 29-15
Memphis - Ryan Silverfield 25-17
Ole Miss - Lane Kiffin - 27-14
Baylor - Dave Aranda - 22-19
Missouri - Drinkwitz - 22-19
FSU - Norvell - 22-16
Arkansas - Sam Pittman - 21-20
Boston College - Jeff Hafley - 17-23
Rutgers - Schiano - 16-23
Old Dominion - Rahne - 11-19
New Mexico - Danny Gonzales - 9-27


You can look up who has a Winning Bowl record and such.... I got to get back to work and clock back in from my break time at the sawmill. Just more data and proof #TeamClark is reigns.

I’m neither pro-Clark nor anti-Clark at this moment, but those stats, like all stats, need context. One would have to know the records of those programs prior to the new coach taking over before any real conclusions could be drawn about their success or failure.

Excluding all FCS games from 2019-2022

2019 Opponents record 73-81 .474

2020 Opponents record 57-57 .500

2021 Opponents record 81-62 .566

2022 Opponents record 69-57 .560

Just more data to bring into this conversation. It isn't the same SBC.

I will say I am a SC supporter and feel he is the right person to lead this team into the future. So many factors behind the scenes that needed to be cleaned up. Yes, there are things the coaching staff has to get better and I feel they will. 8-4 with improvement seems to be a good stepping stone into next.

[AppStFan1]

Let's talk about Clark. He's an App guy through and through, that's why I support him. He's building a blue collar, run first, inward facing player led program, that's why I support him. He's made great assistant coach hires on a limited budget, that's why I support him. He's made good use of the portal and recruits well, that's why I support him. The program is disciplined. support. He wins more than he loses, and our brand has more national recognition than ever before. support. Finally, he seems to be a genuine good guy, not a douchebag like most of the coaches he competes against. That probably explains why he gets these type threads.

I'd agree with some of your points and disagree with others. But my previous point stands- people will see and hear what they want to validate their stance. Mine is eye test, things I hear from my team sources and results.

I tend to agree with your statement. People will see what they ultimately want to see. I understand why many are so upset. That said, at this point, I don't agree with the conclusion that firing Clark is the appropriate solution. My "eye test" seems to be different than yours, and that's fine. I see this year's version of the Apps being MUCH better than last year's. Our D has played very well, although I was frustrated with the ULM game. I give ULM credit for using their bye week well and coming out with an offensive plan that was VERY different from what the film had shown before. Yes, we should have adjusted sooner but we did ultimately adjust and made key stops in the 4th quarter. That is completely unlike last year.

My frustration with these discussions is that we don't have the data to reach a conclusion. Those who are focusing on individual efforts (games) and calling for coaching changes are ignoring any statistically valid approach. Root causes this year are dissimilar to last year. All issues I've seen are coachable and appear to be getting coached. The whole "loser mentality" is a bullshit statement and is a lazy attempt to disqualify opinions that are different.

Frankly, I groaned when I saw this thread. Every thread we have this year winds up on this topic so why do we need a separate thread?

By the way, the whole "so you are willing to accept mediocrity" is another lazy and inappropriate comment in this discussion. Nobody on this board is willing to accept 6-6 as an ongoing goal. Personally, I will be extremely upset if we only win 6 or 7 games this year. I think we can do better, but I will wait to see what the actual factors are when and where we wind up at the end of the season. The "you are accepting mediocrity" is an attempt to build a straw-man argument. Imposing a hyperbolic version of the opponent's position so you can attack that instead of discussing what is actually said....that's called building a straw man.

We are all Apps. It's time we started acting like it. It's OK to have differing opinions.

P.S. I have to admit....there's one poster who claims to support Clark who makes some absolutely bizarre statements. I will not call him by name but....DAMN

I also think we need to let this season play out. I do think if Shawn had beat ULL in the title game, finished 8-4 last year, and at least been .500 against winning teams the last couple years that there would be a longer leash in the eyes of everyone. I knew this year could be a 7-8 win season and this is not the year to completely judge with a new QB but due to those results and the fact we are in year 4 has people aggravated. I just think these folks need to relax and see how the season plays out. It is okay if you have some doubt that he will but are also open minded but we have some whose mind can't be changed either way.

The point on the accepting mediocrity can be a lazy one for some to make but we sadly have some folks who I believe will defend anything to keep access. We have boosters who were cut off from Drink and it made them mad. They want to feel special and they fear an outsider will not make them feel special. It is a small segment but they will.

I think you are like me and just want to win. I like Shawn and think we need to be fair to him. I don't want to hurt him and I know he wants to win even more than any of us. Football is his livelihood and I doubt that is the case for those who are firmly in one either side of the debate. Firing someone who is not making millions a year should not be taken lightly.

[appstatealum]

Let me be clear since some of the things I've said are referred to often, mostly without context- I like Clark, I want him to win. He's an App guy through and through and has stated he wants to stay long term no matter what. That's obviously a good foundation. BUT, I do think our momentum as a winning program has slowed/if not halted. I'm not OK with that. Despite the "hard nosed never give up" culture we have, this team has struggled with consistency and "Football Identity" to build off of and or ground ourselves in each year. Plenty of questionable coaching decisions, poor player execution, and strange things surrounding the program have been floating around during his tenure. I squarely hold the coach accountable for this. Can it be fixed, yes. Will it? Time will tell. Do I want a mid season firing? No. Do I hope it turns around, 100% yes. But I'm very down on it all because of the patterns. That doesn't mean I want to see him ousted, it just means I'm prepared for it if we finish less than 8-4. Winning and program perception are everything. If we fall off too far, the climb back up will be long and difficult and that has been and will always be my concern.

[DenverOfTheEast]

FBS Football Coaches that were hired in 2020 win totals at their current schools:

UTSA - Jeff Traylor - 31-13 (3 years in CUSA) currently in American
APP State - #TeamClark 29-15
Memphis - Ryan Silverfield 25-17
Ole Miss - Lane Kiffin - 27-14
Baylor - Dave Aranda - 22-19
Missouri - Drinkwitz - 22-19
FSU - Norvell - 22-16
Arkansas - Sam Pittman - 21-20
Boston College - Jeff Hafley - 17-23
Rutgers - Schiano - 16-23
Old Dominion - Rahne - 11-19
New Mexico - Danny Gonzales - 9-27


You can look up who has a Winning Bowl record and such.... I got to get back to work and clock back in from my break time at the sawmill. Just more data and proof #TeamClark is reigns.

I’m neither pro-Clark nor anti-Clark at this moment, but those stats, like all stats, need context. One would have to know the records of those programs prior to the new coach taking over before any real conclusions could be drawn about their success or failure.

The point is who has the most wins after 4 years in their position. Just like voting for President - 4 years - where are at, etc.


As well as the relative quality of their opponents/conferences.

That has ZERO to do with it.....it's all relative.

[WVAPPeer]

" Despite the "hard nosed never give up" culture we have, this team has struggled with consistency and "Football Identity" to build off of and or ground ourselves in each year."

I'm not sure how many coaches can claim consistency over the last 3 years

[Saint3333]

Comparing App State football to the general football world is a non-starter for me. We haven't been average since the early 1980's, don't intend to start now and Clark would be the first one to state that.

Seven games left this season and pulling for him and the team in every one of them. Beat CCU.

[appdaze]

Can we throw up a truce on all these threads stemming from the UL game? Everyone has bothered on to the point we are running out of oxygen.

It's Wednesday now. Let's move on to our next game physically and mentally and see what post game discussion warrants then. Let this current horse die.

[311neers]

Comparing App State football to the general football world is a non-starter for me. We haven't been average since the early 1980's, don't intend to start now and Clark would be the first one to state that.

Seven games left this season and pulling for him and the team in every one of them. Beat CCU.

3-4 years ago, we were tracking to be or already were the UGA/Bama of the G5...along with Cincy/Boise.

That's the standard I want back.

[AppStFan1]

Comparing App State football to the general football world is a non-starter for me. We haven't been average since the early 1980's, don't intend to start now and Clark would be the first one to state that.

Seven games left this season and pulling for him and the team in every one of them. Beat CCU.

3-4 years ago, we were tracking to be or already were the UGA/Bama of the G5...along with Cincy/Boise.

That's the standard I want back.

100% and if anyone doesn’t have that goal then they aren’t a real fan. I don’t care about access to the staff or AD as long as we win the right way. Shawn has same standard you and I do and he doesn’t want App being labeled an average program either.

[WVAPPeer]

Sure we all want to be at that level but I can honestly say I never heard App discussed in that regard - there was Boise who had dropped from that level - there was Houston and Cincy who have moved up and BYU - moved up and San Diego St - unknown level at this point - we go 12-1 and play a mediocre team in a mediocre bowl - It should have been different that year but it wasn't

[Saint3333]

You weren’t paying attention then.

App’s record 2015-2020 was the 5th most wins in the FBS.

Six straight bowl wins.

Ranked 26th, 19th, 26th 2018-2020.

We were on the way to becoming that team. App was getting attention as the next Boise.

We then started the slide.

[WVAPPeer]

Then you didn't read what was said - App was being called the UGA/Bama of the G5 - Never heard that - guess you did???

[Saint3333]

Best of the G5, heard that quite a bit actually.

[311neers]

You weren’t paying attention then.

App’s record 2015-2020 was the 5th most wins in the FBS.

Six straight bowl wins.

Ranked 26th, 19th, 26th 2018-2020.

We were on the way to becoming that team. App was getting attention as the next Boise.

We then started the slide.

Exactly….every time wins the past 10 years we’re mentioned it was Bama, Uga, Clemson, OSU, Oklahoma, Boise, App State, Cincy, etc. We were there, and have slid a little. Time to get back to the top of the G5 and not the top 7 of the Sun Belt.

[t4pizza]

You weren’t paying attention then.

App’s record 2015-2020 was the 5th most wins in the FBS.

Six straight bowl wins.

Ranked 26th, 19th, 26th 2018-2020.

We were on the way to becoming that team. App was getting attention as the next Boise.

We then started the slide.

Exactly….every time wins the past 10 years we’re mentioned it was Bama, Uga, Clemson, OSU, Oklahoma, Boise, App State, Cincy, etc. We were there, and have slid a little. Time to get back to the top of the G5 and not the top 7 of the Sun Belt.

During the Wyoming game they had a stat that since 2014 we were the 6th best team in FBS for away wins. So, yeah we still get mentioned in that company.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Can someone look up and show the records of the coaches in the Belt since 2020- taking out all FCS wins for each. Obviously Chatwell is gone and he probably would lead the pack. I'm sure that Ga State doesn't look great overall. Marshall and ODU just moved over. JMU is not relevant yet. La dipped last year and it will be interesting to see if they rebound. I don't think that overall Troy will be much better than us. The "standard " that some people here expect has been achieved by beating (overall) much less difficult opponents. I've said many times that some have a hard time understanding that the teams we play actually recruit, practice and compete just as hard as we do. The entire landscape of college football has changed and I see App moving in that direction. What I don't see as part of our culture is to reload through the portal every year with 20-30 new players simply to win at all costs.

[Saint3333]

Comparing App State football to the general football world is a non-starter for me. We haven't been average since the early 1980's, don't intend to start now and Clark would be the first one to state that.

Seven games left this season and pulling for him and the team in every one of them. Beat CCU.

Saying it again for the people in the back.

[WVAPPeer]

The lists are there and have been there for several years - I read them weekly in game notes and digital programs - I have forwarded them to friends - But I have never said, nor heard any sports person say APP or anyone else was tracking to be the UGA/Bama of the G5

[Saint3333]

Ok, congrats.

We have.

[appstatealum]

When you are talked about as a "cute story" and "in the past, App has best Michigan and had some close calls..." vs a dominate G5 program than you know we have slipped. When we have to focus on our past victories versus our present, then we aren't where we need to be. It's simple. We shouldn't be content with having an average record. Our claim to fame was that we overachieved vs expectations and have always punched above our level. Now we are getting passed by other programs and we are in that "average" mix. Is it horrible? No. But is it what has defined our program for over a decade? Absolutely not.