Doeren Scared of App State?

[Saint3333]

Adding parameters to a debate is prevalent on this board.

[Saint3333]

His logic on why they should not play App in Boone is the same logic some on here applied to why App shouldn’t play at Western.

No it’s not.

Show me one example of an FBS program playing away at an fcs program in the modern era. Just one.

This is like the Yankees saying they will not play away at the Tampa bay rays and you saying it’s the same as Tampa refusing to play at the Charlotte Knights.

I don’t need too because it has likely not happened. Again, read the article. His logic was based on a lack of value to his program. You are adding parameters that weren’t mentioned in the article to make your point.

Edit: A quick Google search shows that it has happened quite a bit. “Yes, FBS teams have played at FCS teams' home fields. This has happened over 250 times since 1978, including instances of FBS teams traveling to FCS teams that were then part of the FBS. For example, Idaho (a former FBS team) lost at Montana (an FCS team) in 2003.”

Technically FCS didn't exist until 2006, prior to that date it was I-AA. A quick google search would show that Yale hosed Army for their 100th anniversary in 2014, but other than that couldn't find another example in the modern FBS/FCS era.

[AtlAppMan]

Doeren doesn't want to play App in Boone for whatever contrived reasons he states. Also many have said then why are you putting a single FCS on your schedule even at home?
So would he be willing to play all his OOC games home and away with UGA, Texas, Ohio State and etc. in a single season, since they would be of value to him? Hell NO. So he would have a killer SOS with all top 10 OOC games, boy what a helluva schedule for The Pack fans to choose from. They could pack home games and travel to see their team play a BIG game. Heck NO. He knows they would end up with 4 automatic losses on their schedule and never see a ranking in that season. The fans would say "What the hell were you guys thinking scheduling these teams, we will never make the playoffs". Eventually the fans would stop coming to games just to see their team get slaughtered.

[AppStFan1]

His logic on why they should not play App in Boone is the same logic some on here applied to why App shouldn’t play at Western.

No it’s not.

Show me one example of an FBS program playing away at an fcs program in the modern era. Just one.

This is like the Yankees saying they will not play away at the Tampa bay rays and you saying it’s the same as Tampa refusing to play at the Charlotte Knights.

I don’t need too because it has likely not happened. Again, read the article. His logic was based on a lack of value to his program. You are adding parameters that weren’t mentioned in the article to make your point.

Edit: A quick Google search shows that it has happened quite a bit. “Yes, FBS teams have played at FCS teams' home fields. This has happened over 250 times since 1978, including instances of FBS teams traveling to FCS teams that were then part of the FBS. For example, Idaho (a former FBS team) lost at Montana (an FCS team) in 2003.”

Technically FCS didn't exist until 2006, prior to that date it was I-AA. A quick google search would show that Yale hosed Army for their 100th anniversary in 2014, but other than that couldn't find another example in the modern FBS/FCS era.

Yeah it is the same level of ball but just different nomenclature. If you want to get technical a fun fact is that we were the last I-AA champ and first FCS champ!

[Saint3333]

His logic on why they should not play App in Boone is the same logic some on here applied to why App shouldn’t play at Western.

No it’s not.

Show me one example of an FBS program playing away at an fcs program in the modern era. Just one.

This is like the Yankees saying they will not play away at the Tampa bay rays and you saying it’s the same as Tampa refusing to play at the Charlotte Knights.

I don’t need too because it has likely not happened. Again, read the article. His logic was based on a lack of value to his program. You are adding parameters that weren’t mentioned in the article to make your point.

Edit: A quick Google search shows that it has happened quite a bit. “Yes, FBS teams have played at FCS teams' home fields. This has happened over 250 times since 1978, including instances of FBS teams traveling to FCS teams that were then part of the FBS. For example, Idaho (a former FBS team) lost at Montana (an FCS team) in 2003.”

Technically FCS didn't exist until 2006, prior to that date it was I-AA. A quick google search would show that Yale hosed Army for their 100th anniversary in 2014, but other than that couldn't find another example in the modern FBS/FCS era.

Yeah it is the same level of ball but just different nomenclature. If you want to get technical a fun fact is that we were the last I-AA champ and first FCS champ!

I-AA is not the modern era was my point.

[AppSt94]

No it’s not.

Show me one example of an FBS program playing away at an fcs program in the modern era. Just one.

This is like the Yankees saying they will not play away at the Tampa bay rays and you saying it’s the same as Tampa refusing to play at the Charlotte Knights.

I don’t need too because it has likely not happened. Again, read the article. His logic was based on a lack of value to his program. You are adding parameters that weren’t mentioned in the article to make your point.

Edit: A quick Google search shows that it has happened quite a bit. “Yes, FBS teams have played at FCS teams' home fields. This has happened over 250 times since 1978, including instances of FBS teams traveling to FCS teams that were then part of the FBS. For example, Idaho (a former FBS team) lost at Montana (an FCS team) in 2003.”

Technically FCS didn't exist until 2006, prior to that date it was I-AA. A quick google search would show that Yale hosed Army for their 100th anniversary in 2014, but other than that couldn't find another example in the modern FBS/FCS era.

Yeah it is the same level of ball but just different nomenclature. If you want to get technical a fun fact is that we were the last I-AA champ and first FCS champ!

I-AA is not the modern era was my point.

I was tasked to finding where a FBS team visited a FCS team. I provided an answer. Qualify it as you wish.

[T-Dog]

A few years ago, Army went to Yale for the 100th Anniversary of the Yale Bowl. And Yale won in overtime.

I consider that a special circumstance. It wouldn't have counted for Army's bowl eligibility anyway because Yale didn't have football scholarships (must have 56 average schollies over the last two-year rolling period to count for bowls).

The Sun Belt has a rule against playing FCS away games. And while G5/6 and P 4/5 is growing increasingly different, there's no official difference in the NCAA's eyes. Both offer the same scholarships limits. But FCS is different. 23 less scholarships limit, plus they can give partial scholarships while FBS are either full or none.

[BambooRdApp]

NC State sees no value in playing Appalachian which shows the delusional level that NC State has as a national football power. A loss to Appalachian would be bad for their program nationally, but I do not see NC State ever having a shot at a national championship in football. I believe Appalachian has a better shot at winning a national championship in football currently than NC State does regardless of who they play or do not play. Heck, I believe that any team in the Sun Belt East has a better shot at making the playoffs in football before NC State does. Just because they are not scared to play anyone and four of them have the championships to prove it as well as nationally ranked wins. The other three are relevant as well nationally. I guess when East Carolina plays them this year, we will see who is relevant...

I don't see how a single loss to App or a similar school would have any sort of impact outside of that season. Plenty of G5 teams have beaten P4/5 from every conference over the years. Do you think anyone at Texas A&M is thinking about their loss to us in 2022?

Lloyd Care and Jimbo Fisher may disagree.

I actually agree with you...

Jimbo got paid like $70MM not to coach.
Clark and the team should be on his Christmas card list and in his prayers every night before he goes to sleep.

Jimbo would get his money either way. I believe a competitive coach prefers to coach and go out on their own terms..

[Saint3333]

I don’t need too because it has likely not happened. Again, read the article. His logic was based on a lack of value to his program. You are adding parameters that weren’t mentioned in the article to make your point.

Edit: A quick Google search shows that it has happened quite a bit. “Yes, FBS teams have played at FCS teams' home fields. This has happened over 250 times since 1978, including instances of FBS teams traveling to FCS teams that were then part of the FBS. For example, Idaho (a former FBS team) lost at Montana (an FCS team) in 2003.”

Technically FCS didn't exist until 2006, prior to that date it was I-AA. A quick google search would show that Yale hosed Army for their 100th anniversary in 2014, but other than that couldn't find another example in the modern FBS/FCS era.

Yeah it is the same level of ball but just different nomenclature. If you want to get technical a fun fact is that we were the last I-AA champ and first FCS champ!

I-AA is not the modern era was my point.

I was tasked to finding where a FBS team visited a FCS team. I provided an answer. Qualify it as you wish.

You were asked to provide examples in the modern era, you failed to do so because there aren't any other than the one special circumstance T-dog and I mentioned earlier.

[AppStFan1]

No it’s not.

Show me one example of an FBS program playing away at an fcs program in the modern era. Just one.

This is like the Yankees saying they will not play away at the Tampa bay rays and you saying it’s the same as Tampa refusing to play at the Charlotte Knights.

I don’t need too because it has likely not happened. Again, read the article. His logic was based on a lack of value to his program. You are adding parameters that weren’t mentioned in the article to make your point.

Edit: A quick Google search shows that it has happened quite a bit. “Yes, FBS teams have played at FCS teams' home fields. This has happened over 250 times since 1978, including instances of FBS teams traveling to FCS teams that were then part of the FBS. For example, Idaho (a former FBS team) lost at Montana (an FCS team) in 2003.”

Technically FCS didn't exist until 2006, prior to that date it was I-AA. A quick google search would show that Yale hosed Army for their 100th anniversary in 2014, but other than that couldn't find another example in the modern FBS/FCS era.

Yeah it is the same level of ball but just different nomenclature. If you want to get technical a fun fact is that we were the last I-AA champ and first FCS champ!

I-AA is not the modern era was my point.

Very true. I-AA back in the 90s was much stronger than FCS is today. Most of the top teams back then from I-AA are now in the G5 level.

[AppWyo]

I don’t need too because it has likely not happened. Again, read the article. His logic was based on a lack of value to his program. You are adding parameters that weren’t mentioned in the article to make your point.

Edit: A quick Google search shows that it has happened quite a bit. “Yes, FBS teams have played at FCS teams' home fields. This has happened over 250 times since 1978, including instances of FBS teams traveling to FCS teams that were then part of the FBS. For example, Idaho (a former FBS team) lost at Montana (an FCS team) in 2003.”

Technically FCS didn't exist until 2006, prior to that date it was I-AA. A quick google search would show that Yale hosed Army for their 100th anniversary in 2014, but other than that couldn't find another example in the modern FBS/FCS era.

Yeah it is the same level of ball but just different nomenclature. If you want to get technical a fun fact is that we were the last I-AA champ and first FCS champ!

I-AA is not the modern era was my point.

Very true. I-AA back in the 90s was much stronger than FCS is today. Most of the top teams back then from I-AA are now in the G5 level.

That is an understatement

If you look at the playoffs from 1987: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_NCAA ... all_season

you will see how many of those schools are now FBS. Shoot, six of those schools are in the Sun Belt and four are in the Sun Belt East. The two teams now in the Sun Belt West were both Indians.

[Stonewall]

I remember it well.

[Bootsy]

Other than his usual level of douchebaggery captured in that article, I doubt Dave is thinking that far ahead. After the way the wheels fell off last season and key recruits/players went elsewhere, Doeren and the Pack have a lot to prove in 2025.

[Stonewall]

As do we. Can we rebound?

[Bootsy]

As do we. Can we rebound?

Hope springs eternal, muchacho.

[AppWyo]

The scarry thing for NC State is the fact that they have to start the season where they left the season, ECU, in Raliegh of course.

[Bigdaddyg1]

A few years ago, Army went to Yale for the 100th Anniversary of the Yale Bowl. And Yale won in overtime.

I consider that a special circumstance. It wouldn't have counted for Army's bowl eligibility anyway because Yale didn't have football scholarships (must have 56 average schollies over the last two-year rolling period to count for bowls).

The Sun Belt has a rule against playing FCS away games. And while G5/6 and P 4/5 is growing increasingly different, there's no official difference in the NCAA's eyes. Both offer the same scholarships limits. But FCS is different. 23 less scholarships limit, plus they can give partial scholarships while FBS are either full or none.

I have always been completely baffled with the P5/4 and G5 references. I’ve asked before as to who officially decided that certain conferences are P and G. It’s easy to determine FCS, D2 and D3 based on scholarship numbers and such but who had the authority to segregate football programs who (money and budget sizes not withstanding) are equal based on the number of scholarships?

[AtlAppMan]

A few years ago, Army went to Yale for the 100th Anniversary of the Yale Bowl. And Yale won in overtime.

I consider that a special circumstance. It wouldn't have counted for Army's bowl eligibility anyway because Yale didn't have football scholarships (must have 56 average schollies over the last two-year rolling period to count for bowls).

The Sun Belt has a rule against playing FCS away games. And while G5/6 and P 4/5 is growing increasingly different, there's no official difference in the NCAA's eyes. Both offer the same scholarships limits. But FCS is different. 23 less scholarships limit, plus they can give partial scholarships while FBS are either full or none.

I have always been completely baffled with the P5/4 and G5 references. I’ve asked before as to who officially decided that certain conferences are P and G. It’s easy to determine FCS, D2 and D3 based on scholarship numbers and such but who had the authority to segregate football programs who (money and budget sizes not withstanding) are equal based on the number of scholarships?

The Power conference term came about around time of transition between BCS and CFP when they negotiated their automatic qualification status with CFP. The AQ conferences and the rest.

[BallantyneApp]

A few years ago, Army went to Yale for the 100th Anniversary of the Yale Bowl. And Yale won in overtime.

I consider that a special circumstance. It wouldn't have counted for Army's bowl eligibility anyway because Yale didn't have football scholarships (must have 56 average schollies over the last two-year rolling period to count for bowls).

The Sun Belt has a rule against playing FCS away games. And while G5/6 and P 4/5 is growing increasingly different, there's no official difference in the NCAA's eyes. Both offer the same scholarships limits. But FCS is different. 23 less scholarships limit, plus they can give partial scholarships while FBS are either full or none.

I have always been completely baffled with the P5/4 and G5 references. I’ve asked before as to who officially decided that certain conferences are P and G. It’s easy to determine FCS, D2 and D3 based on scholarship numbers and such but who had the authority to segregate football programs who (money and budget sizes not withstanding) are equal based on the number of scholarships?

It came about during the Bcs years when it was decided that certain conferences had “power” (p) and certain conferences didn’t (g). The g conferences agreed once the p conferences said either agree or we split.

What it actually means is the P conferences have autonomy- and g conferences don’t. The p conferences make the rules and the g conferences have to abide by them with little or no say. The p conferences are the ones that agreed to the house settlement (which the g conferences disproportionately pay for), agreed to the new CEO structure, and the new playoff structure with no input from G conferences.


This autonomy is not sacrosanct though, the Big East was a power conference for about 5 minutes before getting raided and it was taken away, leading to the humorous P6 branding of the AAC. Similarly after the PAC fell apart, the other conferences stripped them of their autonomous status, so now Oregon state and Washington state et al are slumming with us plebs.

[AppWyo]

A few years ago, Army went to Yale for the 100th Anniversary of the Yale Bowl. And Yale won in overtime.

I consider that a special circumstance. It wouldn't have counted for Army's bowl eligibility anyway because Yale didn't have football scholarships (must have 56 average schollies over the last two-year rolling period to count for bowls).

The Sun Belt has a rule against playing FCS away games. And while G5/6 and P 4/5 is growing increasingly different, there's no official difference in the NCAA's eyes. Both offer the same scholarships limits. But FCS is different. 23 less scholarships limit, plus they can give partial scholarships while FBS are either full or none.

I have always been completely baffled with the P5/4 and G5 references. I’ve asked before as to who officially decided that certain conferences are P and G. It’s easy to determine FCS, D2 and D3 based on scholarship numbers and such but who had the authority to segregate football programs who (money and budget sizes not withstanding) are equal based on the number of scholarships?

It came about during the Bcs years when it was decided that certain conferences had “power” (p) and certain conferences didn’t (g). The g conferences agreed once the p conferences said either agree or we split.

What it actually means is the P conferences have autonomy- and g conferences don’t. The p conferences make the rules and the g conferences have to abide by them with little or no say. The p conferences are the ones that agreed to the house settlement (which the g conferences disproportionately pay for), agreed to the new CEO structure, and the new playoff structure with no input from G conferences.


This autonomy is not sacrosanct though, the Big East was a power conference for about 5 minutes before getting raided and it was taken away, leading to the humorous P6 branding of the AAC. Similarly after the PAC fell apart, the other conferences stripped them of their autonomous status, so now Oregon state and Washington state et al are slumming with us plebs.

I believe that the PAC believes they can once again obtain Autonomous status if they can rebuild their conference.

If The Sun Belt Conference gained Autonomous Status would Appalachian want to leave the Sun Belt. I do not believe there is a chance, however, if it did happen would they?